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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It probably wouldn’t do to allow the
pilot call out “Avoidance” - too much of a chance or using it to
bail out of a bad maneuver. It could be set up, however, for the caller to call
it <span class=GramE>out ?</span> They also probably have a better vision of
the total sky.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>ronlock@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October 05, 2006
1:57 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List;
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I think Ed has provided a good review of the
situation-<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>And reluctantly agree, there is too much devil in the
details to create a<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>set of criteria that judges could apply with
consistency.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ron Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;
margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Ed Alt" <ed_alt@hotmail.com> <br>
<br>
> I think the problem here is that receiving approval for interrupting a <br>
> flight for near collisions would be based on 90% guesswork. If the judges <br>
> are really watching what they are supposed to be watching, they are not in
a <br>
> very good position to objectively determine if a collision was really <br>
> imminent. For that matter, even the pilot isn't in a good position to do <br>
> this most of the time. Some callers can probably handle this chore, others
<br>
> may not be able to. Do you want to have a situation where the caller blows
<br>
> it for you through a well intentioned, but totally inaccurate
"avoidance" <br>
> call that the judges can disagree with? Do the judges base things on what <br>
> they hear and from who they hear it, do they base i! t on wh at they see
(like <br>
> an obvious ditch from the flight path) or is it a combination of both? The
<br>
> rules don't say a thing about this, so it opens up more issues. <br>
> <br>
> I think that it all happens too fast most of the time, except when two <br>
> models get in synch in the same general direction and eventually try to <br>
> mate. You might find that it's a dispute that the CD can't easily settle, <br>
> because he/she probably wasn't watching and the judges probably didn't see
<br>
> it well enough to decide properly in many cases. If there was going to be
a <br>
> real, purposeful avoidance rule for Pattern, I think it would have to be <br>
> more explicitely stated to require the discretion of the pilot or
suggestion <br>
> by the caller to be the expresed verbally and for that matter, allow the <br>
> pilot to declare whether or not they are actually following the callers <br>
> suggestion or just plowing ahead. You could perhaps ! allow t he judges to
<br>
> perform a smell test if they really thought it was bogus, but just as you <br>
> shouldn't downgrade for errors you didn't see, you probably shouldn't <br>
> question the pilot discretion on avoidance calls, if they are made a
formal <br>
> rule. <br>
> <br>
> All-in-all, I think it's probably not a real effective rule to adopt. I'm <br>
> not sure that following the "If it saves just ONE airplane, it's
worth it" <br>
> line of thinking is good for competition. Maybe it is better left to CD's <br>
> as to whether they want to make this a standard practice at their contests.
<br>
> That would be my suggestion anyway - if the locals think this is the way
to <br>
> go and can encourage CD's to make it standard practic through a rules
waiver <br>
> for the sanctioned event, then go for it. <br>
> <br>
> Ed <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> >From: Jeff Hill <br>
<JH102649@SPEAKEASY.NET>> >Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSS! ION@LIS TS.NSRCA.ORG>> >To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG>> >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion]
Avoidance <br>
> >Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:11:32 -0600 <br>
> > <br>
> >All - <br>
> > <br>
> >Below is the rule from the AMA 2005 Competition Rulebook. IMHO it
requires <br>
> >you to interrupt the maneuver and not fly any subsequent <br>
> >maneuvers--otherwise they are scored. In this case it appears the CD
would <br>
> >have to make a ruling. In actual practice the CD would probably rely
on <br>
> >the judges' opinions for guidance. This would most likely mean that
you <br>
> >would have to bail and land and wait for the CD to rule. If you bailed
and <br>
> >your request was denied then you cannot complete the flight; whereas
if <br>
> >you ruin one maneuver and complete the flight the rest of the flight
is <br>
> >scored but you lose your right to appeal. <br>
> > <br>
> >In! 2007 a new rule, 6.8, might also be used as grounds for a
reflight. <br>
> > <br>
> >Both rules are printed below. <br>
> > <br>
> >Jeff Hill <br>
> > <br>
> >10.2. Each competitor is entitled to one (1) <br>
> >attempt for each official flight. An attempt may be <br>
> >repeated at the judges’ discretion only if, for some <br>
> >unforeseen reason, the model fails to make a start <br>
> >(i.e., safety delay due to other aircraft traffic, etc.). <br>
> >Similarly, an attempt may be repeated at the discretion <br>
> >of the Contest Director if it has been interrupted <br>
> >due to a circumstance beyond the control of the competitor, <br>
> >but only the maneuver affected and the <br>
> >unscored maneuvers that follow will be scored. The <br>
> >Contest Director shall have sole discretionary authority <br>
> >to grant a single repeat attempt, if, in his/her opinion, <br>
> >the competitor has ! encount ered radio interference <br>
> >during the course of an official attempt. <br>
> >• 10.3. In the case of a collision during a <br>
> >Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately <br>
> >recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights <br>
> >with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be <br>
> >airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They <br>
> >will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or <br>
> >with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision <br>
> >occurred between maneuvers. The previously <br>
> >defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight <br>
> >and the contestant will be allowed no more than two <br>
> >(2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of <br>
> >trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers <br>
> >will be added to the scores of subsequent <br>
> >maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be <br>
> >compl! eted by the end of the round being flown, or <br>
> >within a time frame designated by the CD. <br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> >6.8 The contestant may ask the CD for a flight delay or reflight due
to <br>
> >unsafe conditions; if the judges concur the delay or reflight must be <br>
> >granted. However, the contestant’s won aircraft cannot be the
cause of <br>
> >the unsafe condition. A contestant’s own aircraft can only have
an <br>
> >equipment malfunction. A flight delay or reflight shall not be granted
<br>
> >for equipment malfunctions at 4A and 5A contests. The CD may make <br>
> >exceptions at other contests. <br>
> > <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> >_______________________________________________ <br>
> >NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> >NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>
> >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <br>
> <br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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