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<DIV>All the "what ifs" and speculation and ideas about how to handle / avoid midairs aside -</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It is extremely difficult to accurately assess the proximity of two planes to each other. Most people that have midairs never saw it coming. I've seen plenty of people take avoidance action to avoid a midair when the planes were not even close (but appeared that way from a particular viewing reference). And it is a little difficult to avoid another plane unless you know what they are going to be doing.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If anyone is increasing the risk of a midair by not doing what they can to avoid them because they are afraid of a judging downgrade, then maybe we can make it more clear in the rules that "avoidance" is not cause for a downgrade, and the rules would need to specify how the maneuver is to be resumed/scored.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>FWIW - If I have to fly at the same time as some of my flying buddies, I will deliberately fly my line closer in or further out to get separation of the flying lines. If they are in the air before I go up, I do not fly their line.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Fred Huber" <fhhuber@clearwire.net> <BR>
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Looks like:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If the pilot has a backup plane... since he is allowed to finish the sequence with the backup... an actual midair is an uncontestable reason to be allowed to finish a round that was interrupted. (I haven't seen that persued.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Judges and CD discretion basicly on allowing resuming or reflying after a near miss...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>For scoring... its more clear about what happens if you do collide than if you don't</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I do agree that the way THESE SECTIONS read... the pilot essentially has to declair an unsafe conditon, that is not an equipment failure in his model, and LAND; then request the refly of the rest of his sequence. (going by the letter of the rules quoted below) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>********</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Midairs are inherantly unsafe conditions.... You can never really be sure which way any particular portion of either plane will go. That makes a potential mid-air an unsafe condition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Its going to cause quite a commotion if someone declairs "Avoiding midair! Landing!" then walks directly to the CD to request reflight. (completion of the sequence) But thats the "letter of the law" proceedure if I am reading it correctly...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I could easilly see just letting the contestant do a maneuver off-center, or outside the box, without penalty if commencement delay was to avoid pulling (or pushing) into a mid-air. So if you do that... holler. "avoiding!" or something similar... It can't hurt. (especially if the judges see the potential for mid-air) That makes just as much sense as offsetting center to avoid flying through the sun, which I have seen allowed. off-center downgrade isn't awful.... better than a zero. Outside box though... zero IIRC. (protestable possibly... if its for mid-air avoidance)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>*I* would go along with avoiding, then doing a "double immelman without rolls" (elongated loop) to reposition and complete the sequence, after a mid-air avoidance... If I was in the judge's seat (and I agreed it was a mid-air avoidance) Holler about avoiding... announce the repositioning maneuver... go on. I'd be likely to say: "OK... thanks for flying safely!"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>If you do a repositioning maneuver then finish, you'll have caused less interruption than landing and asking for a reflight... You may need to protest 0's on the maneuver following the reposition... (If I remember the penalty for sticking an extra maneuver into the schedule) But... you'd have been zeroed for the avoidance anyway if the judges don't agree the maneuver being mis-flown was for avoidance. (or potentially lost a $350 Sportsman to $5000+ FAI model by not avoiding.)</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2> Making allowances in judging to prevent mid-airs just makes sense. (or to prevent temproary blindness of pilot, caller and judges, in cases of offset for the sun) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>We already allow an extra lap or two of the field prior to landing to give time for the runway to clear when someone else is taking off or landing... allowing an inserted loop, or some other offset, to avoid a mid-air makes sense to me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>*************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>(pasted from a subsequent e-mail)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>All-in-all, I think it's probably not a real effective rule to adopt. I'm <BR>not sure that following the "If it saves just ONE airplane, it's worth it" <BR>line of thinking is good for competition. Maybe it is better left to CD's <BR>as to whether they want to make this a standard practice at their contests. <BR>That would be my suggestion anyway - if the locals think this is the way to <BR>go and can encourage CD's to make it standard practic through a rules waiver <BR>for the sanctioned event, then go for it.<BR><BR>Ed</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>*******</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I see Ed's point... I hope that we don't need to change the rules to encourage mid-air avoidance... and we can just try to be reasonable about when a pilot declairs he's avoiding a mid-air.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Avoiding a mid-air is not something that should excessively disrupt the flight, or cause a scoring problem if we are reasonable. But its very hard to codify "reasonable"....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>******</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I wonder what the rules would say if a judge instructed the pilot to hold level then insert a maneuver to get back in position for mid-air avoidance.... Can the judge do that? Can a judge say "TURN LEFT NOW!"? (LIke an Air traffic controller could to a full scale aicraft...)</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jh102649@speakeasy.net href="mailto:jh102649@speakeasy.net">Jeff Hill</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:11 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial>All -</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">Below is the rule from the AMA 2005 Competition Rulebook. IMHO it requires you to interrupt the maneuver and not fly any subsequent maneuvers--otherwise they are scored. In this case it appears the CD would have to make a ruling. In actual practice the CD would probably rely on the judges' opinions for guidance. This would most likely mean that you would have to bail and land and wait for the CD to rule. If you bailed and your request was denied then you cannot complete the flight; whereas if you ruin one maneuver and complete the flight the rest of the flight is scored but you lose your right to appeal. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">In 2007 a new rule, 6.8, might also be used as grounds for a reflight. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">Both rules are printed below. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">Jeff Hill</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B>10.2. </B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">Each competitor is entitled to one (1)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">attempt for each official flight. An attempt may be</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">repeated at the judges’ discretion only if, for some</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">unforeseen reason, the model fails to make a start</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">(i.e., safety delay due to other aircraft traffic, etc.).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">Similarly, an attempt may be repeated at the discretion</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">of the Contest Director if it has been interrupted</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">due to a circumstance beyond the control of the competitor,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">but only the maneuver affected and the</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">unscored maneuvers that follow will be scored. The</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">Contest Director shall have sole discretionary authority</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">to grant a single repeat attempt, if, in his/her opinion,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">the competitor has encountered radio interference</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">during the course of an official attempt.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">• </SPAN></FONT><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B>10.3. </B></SPAN></FONT><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">In the case of a collision during a</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">occurred between maneuvers. The previously</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">and the contestant will be allowed no more than two</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">(2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">will be added to the scores of subsequent</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">completed by the end of the round being flown, or</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px">within a time frame designated by the CD.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><B><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px">6.8 The contestant may ask the CD for a flight delay or reflight due to unsafe conditions; if the judges concur the delay or reflight must be granted. However, the contestant’s won aircraft cannot be the cause of the unsafe condition. A contestant’s own aircraft can only have an equipment malfunction. A flight delay or reflight shall not be granted for equipment malfunctions at 4A and 5A contests. The CD may make exceptions at other contests.</SPAN></FONT><FONT class=Apple-style-span face=Times size=2><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 10px"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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