<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Oct 4, 2006, at 9:52 PM, Fred Huber wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV><FONT size="2">So if your memory is correct (and I hope it is)... we already have a rule that works to give someone the option to evade the potential mid-air... reposition, refly the interrupted maneuver and go on... no downgrade.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size="2">That would mean its just a matter of educating the judges and the pilots<BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I went to the current AMA competition regulations for R/C aerobatics and what I said is repeated virtually word-for-word in paragraph 10.2. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Ron Van Putte</DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV><FONT size="2"> </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title="vanputte@cox.net" href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:21 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT size="2"></FONT> </DIV>This is a 'sticky' area that requires a good CD. The rules state (this is from memory) that a contestant has the option to repeat an attempt, if his flight is interrupted due to circumstances beyond his control, but only for the maneuver affected and subsequent maneuvers. I think that, in avoiding a midair collision, the pilot shows some, but not complete control in the situation and the rules still warrants his being allowed to continue the flight, starting with the affected maneuver. </DIV> <DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV> <DIV>Ron Van Putte</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(rearranged for clarity of who's comment I am referring to...)<BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV class="Section1"><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <DIV>On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Jay Marshall wrote:</DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV class="Section1"><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I asked this question of a CD once, and also some judges, and was told that there was no escaping a downgrade if you took action to avoid a possible midair. Pilots are also intensely concentrated on their own aircraft and may not see another until it is too late to make a decision on which way to jump. This is why I advocate flying slightly intersecting tracks, say 10 – 20 degrees, rather than parallel tracks at contests.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Richards<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:11 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance</SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Fred,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I agree 100%.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob R.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Fred Huber <<A href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">fhhuber@clearwire.net</A>></SPAN></I></B> wrote:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Problem here is... one pilot may not see the other and the one who does see the other may be the lower class pilot, who has had it ground in that he MUST NOT DEVIATE.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I've heard discussions about close encounters... and what I hear is... "the planes look closer to each other than they are"... "the higher class is always further out"... "ignore the other plane."</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">So... what I keep hearing is exactly opposed to any attempt at avoidance for any reason. Stick to your maneuver sequence at all costs.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">There is no allowance given in the rules for mid-air avoidance... thus the way it is now, whoever flinches can throw out his flight because he's going to get a 0... or maybe a couple of zeros for blowing the maneuver to avoid a mid-air. (unless the judges would deviate and say "Avoid him and then refly the maneuver") You can bet that 99%+ will wait for the other guy to flinch, especially if they are having a good flight.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">So.. the guy who might be willing to give up his score and avoid... may be the one who doesn't see the mid-air comming and you have the other guy fixated on score... expecting the other guy to get out of his way... SMACK. So... maybe the pilot who saw it comming "desrrves it".. does that make the other guy who didn't see it comming deserve it? </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Give the pilots indication they won't be penlized for preventing 2 planes from occupying the same place at the same time... and the guy who sees it comming will be more willing to prevent the collision.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">As long as you have 2 flight lines on the same field flying in essentially the same box... you'll have mid-airs come up. Yes, USUALLY the higher class pilot flys a bit further out and thus there's little risk. But some lower class guys learn the box is bigger if you fly further out... More time between maneuvers... less rush... Easier to be smooth... And the rules even say you need to be out that far.... (most Sportsman pilots fly a closer line than the prescribed distance out... from what I have observed)</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><P class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">_______________________________________________</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV> <DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/462 - Release Date: 10/3/2006<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>