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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Even if the S&G criteria were removed from the
rulebook, it would remain in the subconcious. There is just something in the
depths of the human psyche that cries out for a way to award the performance
accomplished with polish in a way that separates it from the one executed with
mediocrity. That has to be IMPRESSION guys..........I
think.................</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>G.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patterndude@comcast.net href="mailto:patterndude@comcast.net">Lance
Van Nostrand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Impression or precision judging?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm a ditto head to Dave on this one. I
can't imagine a situation where someone could fly perfect precision - I
mean really perfect with all lines straight, radiuses matched, etc that
should not get scored all 10s. How would the pattern be flown
differently to introduct S&G and maintain 10s? Should a very smooth
and graceful sequence flown with a bunch of 9.5 precision scores (actual
defects that cause a .5 point downgrade) be given 10s? If we were
to eliminate S&G and have only downgrades for precision errors then judges
must interpret S&G critically in that S&G flair can hurt but not help
a manuver. truth is, pilots will use S&G to mask precision errors,
or to mask difficult timing and centering issues. I watch pilots much
better than me get away with murder but do it so purposefully and smooth that
judges don't seem to even see it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eliminating S&G from the judging criteria
would not eliminate S&G from flying nor from judging, but it would weaken
it as a reason to downgrade. If all you can say is that the manuver
seemed technically correct but there was "something" wrong, then what you are
really saying is that it was not technically correct and you saw the downgrade
but you just can't put your finger on it in your conscious mind. I would
be OK with admitting that was my limitation as a human judge and I will not
penalize the pilot for it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:04
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Impression or precision judging?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Technically perfect is well understood and can be objectively
assessed. Specific judging criteria and downgrades are well
defined/documented in our judges guide. Yes, gray areas do exist in
which it is difficult to extract an exact point value downgrade from the
rulebook, but guidance/basis is there, and it is the job of a judge to make
judgements (and in my experience 90% of the time the answer to the gray
areas is apply 1 point per 15 degrees).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Smooth and graceful (S+G) is subjective, and to date has never had a
point value or downgrades associated with it. The S+G criteria allows
an impression judge to score a technically flawed maneuver higher than
a technically perfect maneuver.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Should a sequence that is flown technically perfect be awarded the
highest score? </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Should it be possible to outscore a technically perfect sequence with a
technically flawed one that is "more smooth" or "more graceful"?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think we should include (S+G) or pursue (Impression score)
criteria which are ill-defined or purely subjective - pattern is about
precision aerobatics which can be (is) well defined, and is a thing of
beauty (to the select few that appreciate it) without the need for S+G,
style, or impression points.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "White, Chris"
<chris@ssd.fsi.com> <BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’d love to hear
some feedback to the following: (or maybe not, but it might help my
understanding of what we’re trying to accomplish in our
judging/flying</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Question:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Isn’t clinical
precision flying the only way to attempt to remove impression
judging? Shouldn’t the sequence itself if flown to precision “be”
the art form?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Example 1:
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I saw one pilot
fly the FAI sequence at our contest last June…. To me his flying was
clinically precise without any “Style” of his own. I mean that very
much as a compliment. The roll rates and radiuses and speeds to me
were very consistent….his timing and flight line control were very
“Clinically precise” It struck me at that if a computer GPS link
could have been flown with an autopilot laying out the perfectly executed
sequence he would have been close. The nearly perfect geometry of
the sequence spoke for itself.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Example
2:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">An example of
impression that I can think of would be some of the point rolls that I
used to see in the 70’s….the ones that kind of slip & lock into each
point (exaggerated lock in), but I could not score them better than points
that merely stop where they are supposed to with minimum fanfare…..could
I? (In fact since one could argue that the roll rate changes to get that
effect it could be downgraded more…..) But I like it, its an
individual preference, but to the letter of the law its
incorrect.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maybe we should
judge by technical merit and each judge give an overall “Impression”
rating someplace on the scoresheet???<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(Wow I spent all
this time trying to think of how to word this….Gee do I hit the send
button…….?????? I hope this strikes a positive chord somewhere…okay
my motive is to learn so I’ll send it.)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chris
White<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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