<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:52 PM, Jay Marshall wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV class="Section1"><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">I asked this question of a CD once, and also some judges, and was told that there was no escaping a downgrade if you took action to avoid a possible midair. Pilots are also intensely concentrated on their own aircraft and may not see another until it is too late to make a decision on which way to jump. This is why I advocate flying slightly intersecting tracks, say 10 – 20 degrees, rather than parallel tracks at contests.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>This is a 'sticky' area that requires a good CD. The rules state (this is from memory) that a contestant has the option to repeat an attempt, if his flight is interrupted due to circumstances beyond his control, but only for the maneuver affected and subsequent maneuvers. I think that, in avoiding a midair collision, the pilot shows some, but not complete control in the situation and the rules still warrants his being allowed to continue the flight, starting with the affected maneuver. </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Ron Van Putte<BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV class="Section1"><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><SPAN style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Tahoma"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR> <B><SPAN style="font-weight:bold">From:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B><SPAN style="font-weight: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob Richards<BR> <B><SPAN style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:11 PM<BR> <B><SPAN style="font-weight:bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR> <B><SPAN style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Avoidance</SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt">Fred,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt">I agree 100%.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt">Bob R.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"><BR> <BR> <B><I><SPAN style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic">Fred Huber <<A href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.net">fhhuber@clearwire.net</A>></SPAN></I></B> wrote:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt">Problem here is... one pilot may not see the other and the one who does see the other may be the lower class pilot, who has had it ground in that he MUST NOT DEVIATE.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt">I've heard discussions about close encounters... and what I hear is... "the planes look closer to each other than they are"... "the higher class is always further out"... "ignore the other plane."</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt">So... what I keep hearing is exactly opposed to any attempt at avoidance for any reason. Stick to your maneuver sequence at all costs.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt">There is no allowance given in the rules for mid-air avoidance... thus the way it is now, whoever flinches can throw out his flight because he's going to get a 0... or maybe a couple of zeros for blowing the maneuver to avoid a mid-air. (unless the judges would deviate and say "Avoid him and then refly the maneuver") You can bet that 99%+ will wait for the other guy to flinch, especially if they are having a good flight.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt">So.. the guy who might be willing to give up his score and avoid... may be the one who doesn't see the mid-air comming and you have the other guy fixated on score... expecting the other guy to get out of his way... SMACK. So... maybe the pilot who saw it comming "desrrves it".. does that make the other guy who didn't see it comming deserve it? </SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt">Give the pilots indication they won't be penlized for preventing 2 planes from occupying the same place at the same time... and the guy who sees it comming will be more willing to prevent the collision.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="2" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:10.0pt">As long as you have 2 flight lines on the same field flying in essentially the same box... you'll have mid-airs come up. Yes, USUALLY the higher class pilot flys a bit further out and thus there's little risk. But some lower class guys learn the box is bigger if you fly further out... More time between maneuvers... less rush... Easier to be smooth... And the rules even say you need to be out that far.... (most Sportsman pilots fly a closer line than the prescribed distance out... from what I have observed)</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt; margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><P class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><FONT size="3" face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="font-size:12.0pt"> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> </BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> </DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>