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<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>Hi
Gang,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>How about
this?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>We need to teach the
difference between "smooth and graceful" and "vague and mushy". At least we need
to teach something like it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>Historically, I have
seen judges mistake oozing into and out of lines for
smoothness.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>I have seen vague
roll starts and stops rewarded, when they are really prolonged and
pre-emptive error fixes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>S&G needs to be
defined as the absence of any bobbles, wiggles, hitches, or discontinuities
in maneuver execution.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT size=3><FONT face=Arial>To accompany
this, the downgrading of changes in roll rate</FONT> <FONT
face=Arial>and radius at maneuver element endpoints needs to be highly
stressed.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>This is the source
of the crispness that has been mentioned.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>Maybe this will
steer in between the two extremes of mushiness and geometry at any
cost.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>The finest flight I
ever saw was the first one up in the morning round on Finals day in
Avignon France.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>Naruke flew brutally
correct geometry. There was not a single bobble, not a molecule of that airplane
went anywhere but exactly where it was supposed to go.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>All his rolls had
precisely the same roll rate from the degree they started to the degree at
which they ended, and if he had missed a stop, there would have been no
hiding.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>The same was true
for all looping segments: constant radii met perfect tangents with no place
to hide in between.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>It was kata-like in
its precision, and there was no doubt that I had witnessed the man operating at
that limit of human performance, where conscious thought would only get in
the way.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>The judges murdered
him! I am fairly sure that to some extent, that flight is part of why the rules
were changed to <EM>mandate</EM> a warmup pilot.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>The problem ... (
enter one can of worms and a can opener) is that perfection is defined as
<EM>what we do not see</EM>,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial size=3>and when a pilot
shows you more by taking exposure, there is no place to reward that, as compared
to someone who shows you less by flying more conservatively.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial
size=3>later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial
size=3>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=323551018-03102006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>george w.
kennie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:04 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
patternrules@earthlink.net; NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Impression or precision judging?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I have to say,........been there, done that. Very common
scenario in my repertoire. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>You nailed it Steve.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patternrules@earthlink.net
href="mailto:patternrules@earthlink.net">Steven Maxwell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Impression or precision judging?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> Dave good points as always, to me smoothness and gracefulness is,
while not defined, is natural part of pattern, and maybe shouldn't be
included in the rules, but how many times do you hear "you are so smooth or
graceful" by a onlooker, sport flyer, 3D dude.</DIV>
<DIV> An example would be say squares, you could do a setup that has
the ailerons and elevator coupled and do very tight square corners, say 2 to
3 ft radius it would be technically correct and should be a 10 if all things
are perfect, but it wouldn't look smooth or graceful, it's just not how our
planes fly.</DIV>
<DIV> Let me ask a question to all, there are times that I see a
maneuver that just looks wrong I can't really put a finger on what it
was, it was rolled right and done correctly but something just doesn't look
right, would this fall into impression judging or just that I can't place
the error to the proper downgrade, I have to make a split second
decision, not like pre turnaround where you had time to evaluate, I know it
didn't look as good as the person that just flew so I can't give it the same
or better score. If this is what people are considering as impression I'm
guilty as sin. I do try and do my best when I judge and try to judge
all on the same level, without style impressions. I might add that I have
always turned down judging finals at Nat's because I feel there are much
better judges than me, I'm ok for a local contest but wouldn't want me to
determine a national champion or team member.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Steven Maxwell</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net"></A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 10/3/2006 11:04:41 AM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Impression or precision judging?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>Technically perfect is well understood and can be objectively
assessed. Specific judging criteria and downgrades are well
defined/documented in our judges guide. Yes, gray areas do exist in
which it is difficult to extract an exact point value downgrade from the
rulebook, but guidance/basis is there, and it is the job of a judge to
make judgements (and in my experience 90% of the time the answer to the
gray areas is apply 1 point per 15 degrees).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Smooth and graceful (S+G) is subjective, and to date has never had a
point value or downgrades associated with it. The S+G criteria
allows an impression judge to score a technically flawed maneuver
higher than a technically perfect maneuver.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Should a sequence that is flown technically perfect be awarded the
highest score? </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Should it be possible to outscore a technically perfect sequence with
a technically flawed one that is "more smooth" or "more graceful"?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think we should include (S+G) or pursue (Impression score)
criteria which are ill-defined or purely subjective - pattern is about
precision aerobatics which can be (is) well defined, and is a thing of
beauty (to the select few that appreciate it) without the need for S+G,
style, or impression points.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "White, Chris"
<chris@ssd.fsi.com> <BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’d love to
hear some feedback to the following: (or maybe not, but it might help my
understanding of what we’re trying to accomplish in our
judging/flying</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Question:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Isn’t clinical
precision flying the only way to attempt to remove impression
judging? Shouldn’t the sequence itself if flown to precision “be”
the art form?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Example 1:
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I saw one pilot
fly the FAI sequence at our contest last June…. To me his flying was
clinically precise without any “Style” of his own. I mean that
very much as a compliment. The roll rates and radiuses and speeds
to me were very consistent….his timing and flight line control were very
“Clinically precise” It struck me at that if a computer GPS link
could have been flown with an autopilot laying out the perfectly
executed sequence he would have been close. The nearly perfect
geometry of the sequence spoke for itself.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Example
2:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">An example of
impression that I can think of would be some of the point rolls that I
used to see in the 70’s….the ones that kind of slip & lock into each
point (exaggerated lock in), but I could not score them better than
points that merely stop where they are supposed to with minimum
fanfare…..could I? (In fact since one could argue that the roll rate
changes to get that effect it could be downgraded more…..) But I
like it, its an individual preference, but to the letter of the law its
incorrect.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maybe we should
judge by technical merit and each judge give an overall “Impression”
rating someplace on the scoresheet???<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(Wow I spent
all this time trying to think of how to word this….Gee do I hit the send
button…….?????? I hope this strikes a positive chord
somewhere…okay my motive is to learn so I’ll send
it.)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chris
White<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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