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<DIV>Fred: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I hope that by now you have been advised that the TO and LDG scores were
NOT changed "on the spot", but were in fact the rules for the past 3 years! You
did not read the rules yourself or this would have been obvious to you prior to
attending your first contest. Next year the rules change, I think for everyone
but FAI. Someone correct me if I am wrong.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you are following this list, you may have seen a lot of discussion
concerning, Judging for wind, the center of maneuvers, when does a maneuver
start, etc. This is all because some competitors are already reading next year's
rules, and trying to be prepared, both to judge them and to fly them. One of the
BEST things a new competitor can do is to read the rules, and be very familiar
with them. If there is ANYTHING you do not fully understand. put your question
on this list and I guarantee that you WILL get an answer, maybe many
answers.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I sinerely hope you hit the trail again next year, and remember: It is a
sport, not life and death, so relax, have fun, and make some new friends. In the
end, the flying becomes just a added bonus to a great weekend with
friends.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Terry T.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 16:07:13 -0700 "Rex LESHER" <<A
href="mailto:trexlesh@msn.com">trexlesh@msn.com</A>> writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV>Wow, that's the first negative response I've heard about flying twice
through the sequence... I'd like to add that here in D8, we
actually ask the Sportsman pilots if they would like to fly through twice, or
once. There really isn't any pressure placed on the pilot to go
along with it... It's up to them. </DIV>
<DIV>I didn't start out flying in Masters... I worked my way up through
the ranks... If I only knew then, what I know now... What's
really amazing is the fact that the pilots in the upper classes really did
have my best interests at heart!!!! Imagine that....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rex</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com">John
Konneker</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 02, 2006 3:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] If you
don't score by the rules.... don'tadvertise a rulebook event</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hey Fred!<BR>If I may...<BR>I flew Sportsman this
year.<BR>The -0- or 10 for the takeoff and landing maneuver is by the
current <BR>rulebook which you can download from the AMA website.<BR>The
"takeoff sequence" is covered on page 87 and the "landing sequence"
<BR>begins on page 82. Both end with the words "Only two scores a 10
or 0 may <BR>be awarded for the take-off sequence".<BR>What you observed was
per the current rules.<BR>Flying two Sportsman sequences per
flight...<BR>This is also per the rulebook.<BR>Page 72 rule 14.8.<BR>It is
called the "Sportsman option".<BR>"Use of this optioin is not a deviation to
the rules..."<BR>I flew it this way in a couple contests this year.<BR>It
does get long when you are first starting but since rule 14.8 states that
<BR>the "highest scoring sequence of each two (2) sequence flights shall be
<BR>counted" you could land after the first sequence without real
penalty. You <BR>would be depriving yourself of the oppourtunity to
better the first flight <BR>but there would be no penalty.<BR>The way I
looked at it was I was there to fly. The more I could fly the <BR>more
I liked it! Endurance was never an issue, my plane was a stock ARF and
<BR>could make the two sequences no problem.<BR>I hope you decide to
continue in pattern.<BR>If you had half the fun I did this year you will be
hooked!<BR>The peopel you meet aren't bad either!<BR>;-)<BR>John L.
Konneker<BR><BR><BR>>From: "Fred Huber" <<A
title=mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">fhhuber@clearwire.com</A>><BR>>Reply-To:
NSRCA Mailing List <<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>To:
<<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] If you don't score by the rules....
<BR>>don'tadvertise a rulebook event<BR>>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006
11:45:42 -0500<BR>><BR>>Clear DayThis has been annoying me for a long
time....<BR>><BR>>At Sportsman level the K=1 takeoff and landing
scores can significantly<BR>>affect the contest
results.<BR>><BR>>The all too common practice of changing the rules at
the last minute, to<BR>>give Sportsman 0 or 10 on take-off and
landing, is inappropriate.<BR>>(Inappropriate to chane the scoring
system for any maneuver at ANY level!)<BR>>Of course all the higher level
pilots will agree to it... it does not <BR>>affect<BR>>them. ANY
ONE PILOT in Sportsman (or whatever other class is
affected)<BR>>contesting the change without it having been advertised as
a rule<BR>>modification in advance should prevent the
change.<BR>><BR>>Yes, the takeoff and landing scoring is something
that I think has affected<BR>>my outcome at contests. I flew a
plane that had a large problem with stall<BR>>turns... with a 6 being a
good result for that maneuver. Full opposed<BR>>aileron wasn't
enough to prevent the plane from rolling when rudder
was<BR>>applied. But I figured my quality of takeoff and landing
would more than<BR>>make up for the poor stall turns, so I showed up for
the contests. And<BR>>every contest I showed up at... they on the
spot said "Sportsman gets 0 or<BR>>10 takeoff and landing" When all
the marginal takeoffs of the other pilots<BR>>in my class got 10's (Many
deserved 5's... or 2's... and I was
<BR>>consistantly<BR>>getting complimented on the smoothness of my
takeoffs and landings.) it <BR>>took<BR>>away the ability for me to
make up for my known problem with the stall
<BR>>turn.<BR>><BR>>Next contest I go to... if they decide to
change the rules on the spot... I<BR>>want my entry fee back. (applies to
some other events I have been to<BR>>also...)<BR>>If they advertise in
advance that the scoring won't be by rulebook... I<BR>>won't show
up.<BR>><BR>>I kept quiet about it (except discussing it with a couple
of local flyers)<BR>>when it occured. Too many much more
accompished pilots were in favor of <BR>>the<BR>>change. IT HAD
NO EFFECT ON THEM! They shouldn't have been part of
the<BR>>discussion at all.<BR>><BR>>You want to change a rule that
affects only one class at the pilots' <BR>>meeting<BR>>before the
first flight... ANY ONE PILOT in that class opposing the
change<BR>>prevents it. And pilots in other classes have no
vote.<BR>><BR>>If the wind is too much for the pilot to think he wants
to risk getting a<BR>>bad score on takeoff and landing... maybe its too
much wind for that pilot<BR>>to bother making a takeoff. All of the
other pilots in the class will be<BR>>dealing with the same wind.
It has just as much chance of preventing them<BR>>from getting a
10.<BR>><BR>>Any contest that decides to give Sportsman 0 or 10 for
takeoff or landing<BR>>should list it as non-rulebook in advance.
If you are going to do the<BR>>2-passes through the sequence without the
full stop landing and another<BR>>takeoff... you need to advertise that
too.<BR>><BR>>I oppose the flying of 2 "flights" of Sportsman with one
takeoff and one<BR>>landing... The takeoff and landing are scored
maneuvers, suppposed to be<BR>>able to get a score other than 0 or 10,
therefore cutting half of the<BR>>opportunities to do well or poorly on
them is changing the scoring vs the<BR>>rulebook. (see above... I
moved this paragraph due to changes in the below<BR>>from the original
version)<BR>><BR>>Also... the Sportsman sequence is relatively short
for a reason. This is <BR>>an<BR>>introductory class. The
contestants are not used to competing... not used<BR>>to getting
judged. They need the ability to do one competition round...
go<BR>>back and talk with others about what they did right, what they did
wrong <BR>>and<BR>>how to improve. They also need a bit of timne
to RELAX between the scored<BR>>flights.<BR>><BR>>Considering how
nervous some people are in thier early competition
<BR>>rounds...<BR>>its a wonder to me that a first time Sportsman
level competitor ends up <BR>>with<BR>>thier airplane in the air by
the end of a second sequence within one <BR>>flight.<BR>><BR>>The
first contest someone flys in, they typically fly too close in,
and<BR>>because of this ALL maneuvers are extremely rushed. By the
end of the<BR>>flight some contestants are so frazzled that they have
severe problems <BR>>doing<BR>>the double-immelman AT ALL. Then
you want them to immedately turn around<BR>>and run the sequence
again? Why not just tell them to land at the judges<BR>>feet so the
judges can stomp on the model?<BR>><BR>>Thats not a formula to
promote more participation... its a formula to
<BR>>scare<BR>>off beginners. If the pilot is ready to run the
sequence twice in a row <BR>>FOR<BR>>THE JUDGES.. they are probably
ready to start working on Inermediate.<BR>><BR>>Most people I have
seen move up from Sportsman, its been due to seeking the<BR>>higher
challenge of Intermediate... not due to getting the points
forcing<BR>>the move up. "Sandbagging" Sportsman is
rare.<BR>><BR>>Also... it is justifiable for someone competing at
Sportsman to set up <BR>>thier<BR>>plane for one round flight
durration. If they average 4 minutes to do a<BR>>round... and put
in a tank which gives 6 minute fuel supply, then the<BR>>2-rounds in one
flight is a guaranteed dead-stick before completion of the<BR>>second
round. Do you force Master's level pilots to carry enough fuel for
<BR>>2<BR>>passes through the sequence? Would they tollerate
that?<BR>><BR>>Forcing a competitor to carry the DEAD WEIGHT of the
fuel for a second <BR>>round<BR>>through the first round is
inappropriate. At Sportsman level... the type<BR>>models which are
competitive include models which would have severe CG<BR>>change with the
fuel depletion...<BR>><BR>>If you think a Sportsman competitor needs
to be able to run 2 times through<BR>>the sequence nonstop, you probably
also think everyone needs to buy a $3000<BR>>plane, capable of flying the
Masters sequence, in order to try out<BR>>Sportsman. Its totaly
unnecessary, inappropriate and shuts out
beginners.<BR>><BR>>FHH<BR>><< ClearDayBkgrd.JPG
>><BR><BR><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>NSRCA-discussion
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