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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I have to say,........been there, done that. Very common
scenario in my repertoire. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>You nailed it Steve.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patternrules@earthlink.net
href="mailto:patternrules@earthlink.net">Steven Maxwell</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Impression or precision judging?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV> Dave good points as always, to me smoothness and gracefulness is,
while not defined, is natural part of pattern, and maybe shouldn't be
included in the rules, but how many times do you hear "you are so smooth or
graceful" by a onlooker, sport flyer, 3D dude.</DIV>
<DIV> An example would be say squares, you could do a setup that has the
ailerons and elevator coupled and do very tight square corners, say 2 to 3 ft
radius it would be technically correct and should be a 10 if all things are
perfect, but it wouldn't look smooth or graceful, it's just not how our planes
fly.</DIV>
<DIV> Let me ask a question to all, there are times that I see a maneuver
that just looks wrong I can't really put a finger on what it was, it was
rolled right and done correctly but something just doesn't look right, would
this fall into impression judging or just that I can't place the error to the
proper downgrade, I have to make a split second decision, not like pre
turnaround where you had time to evaluate, I know it didn't look as good as
the person that just flew so I can't give it the same or better score. If this
is what people are considering as impression I'm guilty as sin. I do try
and do my best when I judge and try to judge all on the same level, without
style impressions. I might add that I have always turned down judging finals
at Nat's because I feel there are much better judges than me, I'm ok for a
local contest but wouldn't want me to determine a national champion or team
member.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Steven Maxwell</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net"></A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To: </B><A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> 10/3/2006 11:04:41 AM </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Impression or precision judging?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=2>
<DIV>
<DIV>Technically perfect is well understood and can be objectively
assessed. Specific judging criteria and downgrades are well
defined/documented in our judges guide. Yes, gray areas do exist in
which it is difficult to extract an exact point value downgrade from the
rulebook, but guidance/basis is there, and it is the job of a judge to make
judgements (and in my experience 90% of the time the answer to the gray
areas is apply 1 point per 15 degrees).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Smooth and graceful (S+G) is subjective, and to date has never had a
point value or downgrades associated with it. The S+G criteria allows
an impression judge to score a technically flawed maneuver higher than
a technically perfect maneuver.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Should a sequence that is flown technically perfect be awarded the
highest score? </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Should it be possible to outscore a technically perfect sequence with a
technically flawed one that is "more smooth" or "more graceful"?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think we should include (S+G) or pursue (Impression score)
criteria which are ill-defined or purely subjective - pattern is about
precision aerobatics which can be (is) well defined, and is a thing of
beauty (to the select few that appreciate it) without the need for S+G,
style, or impression points.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "White, Chris"
<chris@ssd.fsi.com> <BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’d love to hear
some feedback to the following: (or maybe not, but it might help my
understanding of what we’re trying to accomplish in our
judging/flying</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Question:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Isn’t clinical
precision flying the only way to attempt to remove impression
judging? Shouldn’t the sequence itself if flown to precision “be”
the art form?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Example 1:
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I saw one pilot
fly the FAI sequence at our contest last June…. To me his flying was
clinically precise without any “Style” of his own. I mean that very
much as a compliment. The roll rates and radiuses and speeds to me
were very consistent….his timing and flight line control were very
“Clinically precise” It struck me at that if a computer GPS link
could have been flown with an autopilot laying out the perfectly executed
sequence he would have been close. The nearly perfect geometry of
the sequence spoke for itself.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Example
2:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">An example of
impression that I can think of would be some of the point rolls that I
used to see in the 70’s….the ones that kind of slip & lock into each
point (exaggerated lock in), but I could not score them better than points
that merely stop where they are supposed to with minimum fanfare…..could
I? (In fact since one could argue that the roll rate changes to get that
effect it could be downgraded more…..) But I like it, its an
individual preference, but to the letter of the law its
incorrect.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Maybe we should
judge by technical merit and each judge give an overall “Impression”
rating someplace on the scoresheet???<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(Wow I spent all
this time trying to think of how to word this….Gee do I hit the send
button…….?????? I hope this strikes a positive chord somewhere…okay
my motive is to learn so I’ll send it.)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chris
White<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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