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<DIV>No he isn't Jim.</DIV>
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<DIV>Jeesh, SINCE when did Pattern become a "geometry at any cost" sport? Geometry IS the main criterion to judge by but is not the only one. Never has and I hope never will. </DIV>
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<DIV>Clinical precision and the great deal of effort that has gone into defining it, is the mainstay of Pattern, true enough. No doubt in my mind that this is well spent effort.</DIV>
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<DIV>BUT, say all you want about clinical precision, Pattern always has had the element of Art and some of that will always be undefined. I hope that the Art requirement of Pattern never changes. I really don't see the verbiage "Smoothness and Gracefulness" as being wrong or not belonging in the rules. To me, it has nothing to do with "impression" judging presently, although it probably did 20 years ago</DIV>
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<DIV>If clinical precision is defined by line segments, angles, rolls, and loops.......smoothness and grace define some of the color of these elements as they are being put together into your tapestry. Things such as constant roll rates or constant radii and other similar words, all speak to S and G more than they do to clinical execution. To me, it's a significant portion of the means by which you perform your art. Why would you not present it so the judge can love it?</DIV>
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<DIV>In meantime lets continue to improve the wording but lets not "improve" it to the point where "choppy" (but clinical) scores the same, just so we can be politically correct. </DIV>
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<DIV>My apologies for the soap suds</DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
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<DIV>In a message dated 10/2/2006 4:45:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim.woodward@schroth.com writes:</DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“Overly-tight” and “non-survivable” radii? Your kidding right? I don’t know – but maybe we should bring those words back so that the little “pivot” radius used by a lot of electric fliers could be downgraded </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Although done at a lower speed, I think the “pivot” or “dink” radius is definitely down gradable when flown as an entry into, lets say: 1. entry in the Cuban 8 with 2/4 and 2/8 from the top, ½ reverse Cuban 8, goldfish, etc. – meaning where the pilot does a “pivot” in the pitch access, then even a small sized ¾ loop is still near infinitely larger than the “pivot” entry into the maneuver.. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Just a bone of mine with a lot of the electric flying styles I’ve seen. When flying slow, they in many instances, are not “carving” entry radius into maneuvers (or when “exiting”’ maneuvers), that match the actual looping segment of the entire maneuver. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim W.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dean Pappas<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 02, 2006 3:50 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction scoring</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In my heart, I agree, but ...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Do you know how long it took us to get the original wording, regarding overly-tight radii and non-survivable "G" levels, out of the rule book?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Would scaled-down people survive greater "G" levels, like ants and cockroaches seem to be able to survive almost anything?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Still it took eons to get rid of that language.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The bear is that the smoothness and gracefulness criteria is more deeply buried in the rules/ Judges' Guide.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When the four basic criteria were ordered in rank of importance, the "positioning is #2 and S&G should be #3" crowd lost the argument! Oh well ...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It's an argument worth having again, but look at how broad the consensus would have to be!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm afraid that the best we can do is to educate our judges, then water and rest them often enough that their attention and energy</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">is sufficient that they don't have to fall back on overall impression, in order to keep up with the unending "next maneuver" assault.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">later,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dean</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dean Pappas <BR>Sr. Design Engineer <BR>Kodeos Communications <BR>111 Corporate Blvd. <BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">South Plainfield</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">N.J.</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">07080</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> <BR>(908) 222-7817 phone <BR>(908) 222-2392 fax <BR>d.pappas@kodeos.com <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>DaveL322@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 02, 2006 2:56 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction scoring</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">John,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I couldn't agree more, and I'd like to see "smoothness and gracefullness" completely removed as a judging criteria as no one has ever been able to quantify what the downgrade should be, or how a geometrically perfect maneuver can be outscored by a more "graceful" maneuver.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Standing by with a bucket of water...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A title=mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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