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<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Brian is correct. We have done this many times at our
contest. I have been to many contests that was done the same way. As far as
telling people ahead of time, it can only be done with some knowlege of what the
weather gods are going to present us at the contest. Here in Kansas, that is not
possible such as it is in the Texas contests. LOL They never have wind. Just a
slight breeze. LOL</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=brian_w_young@yahoo.com href="mailto:brian_w_young@yahoo.com">brian
young</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 02, 2006 8:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] If you
don't score by the rules....don'tadvertise a rulebook event</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sorry you got a bad impression. From past experience and when the
landings were scored incrementally the reason they were changed to 0 and
10 at the pilots meeting is frequently less than perfect conditions, or small
runway. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Landing is normally where planes get broken, and takeoffs are normally
where people get ran out of judges chairs. So in bad conditions it makes sense
to modify the scoring. So if you bother to travel to a contest and the weather
is crummy it makes it a little easier for some if they dont have so much
pressure to make a landing. We dont want anyone to break a plane and possibly
end their season, we need everyone thats interested in pattern to stay
interested. Hope you get back in the mood to hit some contests. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Im with ya on the scoring of the TO and landings though,
landings can be tough to get right and if you do them well you want
them scored no matter the k factor. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><B><I>Fred Huber <fhhuber@clearwire.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000>This wasn't this year... I
didn't go to a contest this year partly because of the bad feeling left over
from the previous rules deviations... which were made at the pilots meeting
propr to the first flight... and I would have been the sole
opposition.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=verne@twmi.rr.com href="mailto:verne@twmi.rr.com">Verne
Koester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 02, 2006 4:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] If
you don't score by the rules....don't advertise a rulebook event</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3>Fred,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3>They WERE scoring by the rules at the
contests you attended this year. Under the current rules, takeoffs and
landings are scored EITHER 0 or 10 for all classes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3>Effective January 1, </FONT><FONT
color=#000000 size=3>2007, Takeoffs and landings will be FROM 0 to 10 in
half point increments for all AMA classes. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3>You're right, deviations from the rule
book are supposed to be advertised in advance of the contest
date.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=3>Verne Koester</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fhhuber@clearwire.com href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">Fred
Huber</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 02, 2006
12:45 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] If you
don't score by the rules.... don't advertise a rulebook event</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>This has been annoying me for a long time....<BR><BR>At Sportsman
level the K=1 takeoff and landing scores can significantly <BR>affect
the contest results.<BR><BR>The all too common practice of changing the
rules at the last minute, to <BR>give Sportsman 0 or 10 on take-off and
landing, is inappropriate. <BR>(Inappropriate to chane the scoring
system for any maneuver at ANY level!) <BR>Of course all the higher
level pilots will agree to it... it does not affect <BR>them. ANY
ONE PILOT in Sportsman (or whatever other class is affected)
<BR>contesting the change without it having been advertised as a rule
<BR>modification in advance should prevent the change.<BR><BR>Yes, the
takeoff and landing scoring is something that I think has affected
<BR>my outcome at contests. I flew a plane that had a large
problem with stall <BR>turns... with a 6 being a good result for that
maneuver. Full opposed <BR>aileron wasn't enough to prevent the
plane from rolling when rudder was <BR>applied. But I figured my
quality of takeoff and landing would more than <BR>make up for the poor
stall turns, so I showed up for the contests. And <BR>every
contest I showed up at... they on the spot said "Sportsman gets 0 or
<BR>10 takeoff and landing" When all the marginal takeoffs of the
other pilots <BR>in my class got 10's (Many deserved 5's... or
2's... and I was consistantly <BR>getting complimented on the
smoothness of my takeoffs and landings.) it took <BR>away the ability
for me to make up for my known problem with the stall turn.<BR><BR>Next
contest I go to... if they decide to change the rules on the spot... I
<BR>want my entry fee back. (applies to some other events I have been to
<BR>also...)<BR>If they advertise in advance that the scoring won't be
by rulebook... I <BR>won't show up.<BR><BR>I kept quiet about it (except
discussing it with a couple of local flyers) <BR>when it occured.
Too many much more accompished pilots were in favor of the
<BR>change. IT HAD NO EFFECT ON THEM! They shouldn't have
been part of the <BR>discussion at all.<BR><BR>You want to change a rule
that affects only one class at the pilots' meeting <BR>before the first
flight... ANY ONE PILOT in that class opposing the change <BR>prevents
it. And pilots in other classes have no vote.<BR><BR>If the wind
is too much for the pilot to think he wants to risk getting a <BR>bad
score on takeoff and landing... maybe its too much wind for that pilot
<BR>to bother making a takeoff. All of the other pilots in the
class will be <BR>dealing with the same wind. It has just as much
chance of preventing them <BR>from getting a 10.<BR><BR>Any contest that
decides to give Sportsman 0 or 10 for takeoff or landing <BR>should list
it as non-rulebook in advance. If you are going to do the
<BR>2-passes through the sequence without the full stop landing and
another <BR>takeoff... you need to advertise that too.<BR><BR>I oppose
the flying of 2 "flights" of Sportsman with one takeoff and one
<BR>landing... The takeoff and landing are scored maneuvers,
suppposed to be <BR>able to get a score other than 0 or 10, therefore
cutting half of the <BR>opportunities to do well or poorly on them is
changing the scoring vs the <BR>rulebook. (see above... I moved
this paragraph due to changes in the below <BR>from the original
version)<BR><BR>Also... the Sportsman sequence is relatively short for a
reason. This is an <BR>introductory class. The contestants
are not used to competing... not used <BR>to getting judged. They
need the ability to do one competition round... go <BR>back and talk
with others about what they did right, what they did wrong and <BR>how
to improve. They also need a bit of timne to RELAX between the
scored <BR>flights.<BR><BR>Considering how nervous some people are in
thier early competition rounds... <BR>its a wonder to me that a first
time Sportsman level competitor ends up with <BR>thier airplane in the
air by the end of a second sequence within one flight.<BR><BR>The first
contest someone flys in, they typically fly too close in, and
<BR>because of this ALL maneuvers are extremely rushed. By the end
of the <BR>flight some contestants are so frazzled that they have severe
problems doing <BR>the double-immelman AT ALL. Then you want them
to immedately turn around <BR>and run the sequence again? Why not
just tell them to land at the judges <BR>feet so the judges can stomp on
the model?<BR><BR>Thats not a formula to promote more
participation... its a formula to scare <BR>off beginners. If the
pilot is ready to run the sequence twice in a row FOR <BR>THE JUDGES..
they are probably ready to start working on Inermediate.<BR><BR>Most
people I have seen move up from Sportsman, its been due to seeking the
<BR>higher challenge of Intermediate... not due to getting the points
forcing <BR>the move up. "Sandbagging" Sportsman is
rare.<BR><BR>Also... it is justifiable for someone competing at
Sportsman to set up thier <BR>plane for one round flight
durration. If they average 4 minutes to do a <BR>round... and put
in a tank which gives 6 minute fuel supply, then the <BR>2-rounds in one
flight is a guaranteed dead-stick before completion of the <BR>second
round. Do you force Master's level pilots to carry enough fuel for
2 <BR>passes through the sequence? Would they tollerate
that?<BR><BR>Forcing a competitor to carry the DEAD WEIGHT of the fuel
for a second round <BR>through the first round is inappropriate.
At Sportsman level... the type <BR>models which are competitive include
models which would have severe CG <BR>change with the fuel
depletion...<BR><BR>If you think a Sportsman competitor needs to be able
to run 2 times through <BR>the sequence nonstop, you probably also think
everyone needs to buy a $3000 <BR>plane, capable of flying the Masters
sequence, in order to try out <BR>Sportsman. Its totaly
unnecessary, inappropriate and shuts out beginners.<BR><BR>FHH
<BR></DIV>
<DIV>
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