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<DIV>I don't know about anybody else, but I'm in agreement with you on this one
Mathiew.</DIV>
<DIV>G.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Rcmaster199@aol.com
href="mailto:Rcmaster199@aol.com">Rcmaster199@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:03
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind
correction scoring</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>No he isn't Jim.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jeesh, SINCE when did Pattern become a "geometry at any cost"
sport? Geometry IS the main criterion to judge by but is not the
only one. Never has and I hope never will. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Clinical precision and the great deal of effort that has gone into
defining it, is the mainstay of Pattern, true enough. No doubt in my mind
that this is well spent effort.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>BUT, say all you want about clinical precision, Pattern always has had
the element of Art and some of that will always be undefined. I hope that the
Art requirement of Pattern never changes. I really don't
see the verbiage "Smoothness and Gracefulness" as being wrong or not belonging
in the rules. To me, it has nothing to do with "impression" judging presently,
although it probably did 20 years ago</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If clinical precision is defined by line segments, angles, rolls, and
loops.......smoothness and grace define some of the color of these elements as
they are being put together into your tapestry. Things such as constant roll
rates or constant radii and other similar words, all speak to S and G more
than they do to clinical execution. To me, it's a significant portion of the
means by which you perform your art. Why would you not present it so the judge
can love it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In meantime lets continue to improve the wording but lets not "improve"
it to the point where "choppy" (but clinical) scores the same, just so
we can be politically correct. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My apologies for the soap suds</DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 10/2/2006 4:45:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jim.woodward@schroth.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“Overly-tight” and
“non-survivable” radii? Your kidding right? I don’t know – but
maybe we should bring those words back so that the little “pivot” radius
used by a lot of electric fliers could be downgraded </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Wingdings color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Although done at a lower speed, I think the “pivot” or “dink”
radius is definitely down gradable when flown as an entry into, lets
say: 1. entry in the Cuban 8 with 2/4 and 2/8 from the top, ½
reverse Cuban 8, goldfish, etc. – meaning where the pilot does a “pivot” in
the pitch access, then even a small sized ¾ loop is still near infinitely
larger than the “pivot” entry into the maneuver..
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Just a bone of mine
with a lot of the electric flying styles I’ve seen. When
flying slow, they in many instances, are not “carving” entry radius into
maneuvers (or when “exiting”’ maneuvers), that match the actual looping
segment of the entire maneuver. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoAutoSig><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
W.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dean Pappas<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 02, 2006 3:50
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind
correction scoring</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In my heart, I
agree, but ...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Do you know how
long it took us to get the original wording, regarding overly-tight
radii and non-survivable "G" levels, out of the rule
book?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Would scaled-down
people survive greater "G" levels, like ants and cockroaches seem to be able
to survive almost anything?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Still it took eons
to get rid of that language.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The bear is that
the smoothness and gracefulness criteria is more deeply buried in the rules/
Judges' Guide.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When the four basic
criteria were ordered in rank of importance, the "positioning is #2 and
S&G should be #3" crowd lost the argument! Oh well
...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It's an argument
worth having again, but look at how broad the consensus would have to
be!</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm afraid that the
best we can do is to educate our judges, then water and rest them often
enough that their attention and energy</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">is sufficient that
they don't have to fall back on overall impression, in order to keep up with
the unending "next maneuver" assault.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">later,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dean</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dean
Pappas <BR>Sr. Design Engineer <BR>Kodeos Communications <BR>111 Corporate
Blvd. <BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">South
Plainfield</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">N.J.</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">07080</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> <BR>(908) 222-7817 phone
<BR>(908) 222-2392 fax <BR>d.pappas@kodeos.com <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><P
class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>DaveL322@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, October 02, 2006 2:56
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind
correction scoring</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">John,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I couldn't agree more, and I'd like to see
"smoothness and gracefullness" completely removed as a judging criteria as
no one has ever been able to quantify what the downgrade should be,
or how a geometrically perfect maneuver can be outscored by a more
"graceful" maneuver.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Standing by with a bucket of
water...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Dave
Lockhart<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A title=mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
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