<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=MailContainerBody
style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; PADDING-TOP: 15px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Lucida Sans; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; TEXT-DECORATION: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none"
leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 acc_role="text" CanvasTabStop="true"
name="Compose message area"><!--[gte IE 5]><?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->
<DIV>
<DIV>Wow, that's the first negative response I've heard about flying twice
through the sequence... I'd like to add that here in D8, we actually
ask the Sportsman pilots if they would like to fly through twice, or
once. There really isn't any pressure placed on the pilot to go
along with it... It's up to them. </DIV>
<DIV>I didn't start out flying in Masters... I worked my way up through
the ranks... If I only knew then, what I know now... What's
really amazing is the fact that the pilots in the upper classes really did have
my best interests at heart!!!! Imagine that....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rex</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A title=mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com
href="mailto:jlkonn@hotmail.com">John Konneker</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 02, 2006 3:00
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] If you
don't score by the rules.... don'tadvertise a rulebook event</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hey Fred!<BR>If I may...<BR>I flew Sportsman this year.<BR>The
-0- or 10 for the takeoff and landing maneuver is by the current <BR>rulebook
which you can download from the AMA website.<BR>The "takeoff sequence" is
covered on page 87 and the "landing sequence" <BR>begins on page 82.
Both end with the words "Only two scores a 10 or 0 may <BR>be awarded for the
take-off sequence".<BR>What you observed was per the current rules.<BR>Flying
two Sportsman sequences per flight...<BR>This is also per the
rulebook.<BR>Page 72 rule 14.8.<BR>It is called the "Sportsman
option".<BR>"Use of this optioin is not a deviation to the rules..."<BR>I flew
it this way in a couple contests this year.<BR>It does get long when you are
first starting but since rule 14.8 states that <BR>the "highest scoring
sequence of each two (2) sequence flights shall be <BR>counted" you could land
after the first sequence without real penalty. You <BR>would be
depriving yourself of the oppourtunity to better the first flight <BR>but
there would be no penalty.<BR>The way I looked at it was I was there to
fly. The more I could fly the <BR>more I liked it! Endurance was
never an issue, my plane was a stock ARF and <BR>could make the two sequences
no problem.<BR>I hope you decide to continue in pattern.<BR>If you had half
the fun I did this year you will be hooked!<BR>The peopel you meet aren't bad
either!<BR>;-)<BR>John L. Konneker<BR><BR><BR>>From: "Fred Huber" <<A
title=mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">fhhuber@clearwire.com</A>><BR>>Reply-To:
NSRCA Mailing List <<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>To:
<<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] If you don't score by the rules.... <BR>>don'tadvertise
a rulebook event<BR>>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 11:45:42
-0500<BR>><BR>>Clear DayThis has been annoying me for a long
time....<BR>><BR>>At Sportsman level the K=1 takeoff and landing scores
can significantly<BR>>affect the contest results.<BR>><BR>>The all
too common practice of changing the rules at the last minute, to<BR>>give
Sportsman 0 or 10 on take-off and landing, is
inappropriate.<BR>>(Inappropriate to chane the scoring system for any
maneuver at ANY level!)<BR>>Of course all the higher level pilots will
agree to it... it does not <BR>>affect<BR>>them. ANY ONE PILOT in
Sportsman (or whatever other class is affected)<BR>>contesting the change
without it having been advertised as a rule<BR>>modification in advance
should prevent the change.<BR>><BR>>Yes, the takeoff and landing scoring
is something that I think has affected<BR>>my outcome at contests. I
flew a plane that had a large problem with stall<BR>>turns... with a 6
being a good result for that maneuver. Full opposed<BR>>aileron
wasn't enough to prevent the plane from rolling when rudder
was<BR>>applied. But I figured my quality of takeoff and landing
would more than<BR>>make up for the poor stall turns, so I showed up for
the contests. And<BR>>every contest I showed up at... they on the
spot said "Sportsman gets 0 or<BR>>10 takeoff and landing" When all
the marginal takeoffs of the other pilots<BR>>in my class got 10's (Many
deserved 5's... or 2's... and I was <BR>>consistantly<BR>>getting
complimented on the smoothness of my takeoffs and landings.) it
<BR>>took<BR>>away the ability for me to make up for my known problem
with the stall <BR>>turn.<BR>><BR>>Next contest I go to... if they
decide to change the rules on the spot... I<BR>>want my entry fee back.
(applies to some other events I have been to<BR>>also...)<BR>>If they
advertise in advance that the scoring won't be by rulebook... I<BR>>won't
show up.<BR>><BR>>I kept quiet about it (except discussing it with a
couple of local flyers)<BR>>when it occured. Too many much more
accompished pilots were in favor of <BR>>the<BR>>change. IT HAD NO
EFFECT ON THEM! They shouldn't have been part of the<BR>>discussion
at all.<BR>><BR>>You want to change a rule that affects only one class
at the pilots' <BR>>meeting<BR>>before the first flight... ANY ONE PILOT
in that class opposing the change<BR>>prevents it. And pilots in
other classes have no vote.<BR>><BR>>If the wind is too much for the
pilot to think he wants to risk getting a<BR>>bad score on takeoff and
landing... maybe its too much wind for that pilot<BR>>to bother making a
takeoff. All of the other pilots in the class will be<BR>>dealing
with the same wind. It has just as much chance of preventing
them<BR>>from getting a 10.<BR>><BR>>Any contest that decides to give
Sportsman 0 or 10 for takeoff or landing<BR>>should list it as non-rulebook
in advance. If you are going to do the<BR>>2-passes through the
sequence without the full stop landing and another<BR>>takeoff... you need
to advertise that too.<BR>><BR>>I oppose the flying of 2 "flights" of
Sportsman with one takeoff and one<BR>>landing... The takeoff and
landing are scored maneuvers, suppposed to be<BR>>able to get a score other
than 0 or 10, therefore cutting half of the<BR>>opportunities to do well or
poorly on them is changing the scoring vs the<BR>>rulebook. (see above...
I moved this paragraph due to changes in the below<BR>>from the
original version)<BR>><BR>>Also... the Sportsman sequence is relatively
short for a reason. This is <BR>>an<BR>>introductory class.
The contestants are not used to competing... not used<BR>>to getting
judged. They need the ability to do one competition round...
go<BR>>back and talk with others about what they did right, what they did
wrong <BR>>and<BR>>how to improve. They also need a bit of timne
to RELAX between the scored<BR>>flights.<BR>><BR>>Considering how
nervous some people are in thier early competition
<BR>>rounds...<BR>>its a wonder to me that a first time Sportsman level
competitor ends up <BR>>with<BR>>thier airplane in the air by the end of
a second sequence within one <BR>>flight.<BR>><BR>>The first contest
someone flys in, they typically fly too close in, and<BR>>because of this
ALL maneuvers are extremely rushed. By the end of the<BR>>flight some
contestants are so frazzled that they have severe problems
<BR>>doing<BR>>the double-immelman AT ALL. Then you want them to
immedately turn around<BR>>and run the sequence again? Why not just
tell them to land at the judges<BR>>feet so the judges can stomp on the
model?<BR>><BR>>Thats not a formula to promote more
participation... its a formula to <BR>>scare<BR>>off beginners. If
the pilot is ready to run the sequence twice in a row <BR>>FOR<BR>>THE
JUDGES.. they are probably ready to start working on
Inermediate.<BR>><BR>>Most people I have seen move up from Sportsman,
its been due to seeking the<BR>>higher challenge of Intermediate... not due
to getting the points forcing<BR>>the move up. "Sandbagging"
Sportsman is rare.<BR>><BR>>Also... it is justifiable for someone
competing at Sportsman to set up <BR>>thier<BR>>plane for one round
flight durration. If they average 4 minutes to do a<BR>>round... and
put in a tank which gives 6 minute fuel supply, then the<BR>>2-rounds in
one flight is a guaranteed dead-stick before completion of the<BR>>second
round. Do you force Master's level pilots to carry enough fuel for
<BR>>2<BR>>passes through the sequence? Would they tollerate
that?<BR>><BR>>Forcing a competitor to carry the DEAD WEIGHT of the fuel
for a second <BR>>round<BR>>through the first round is
inappropriate. At Sportsman level... the type<BR>>models which are
competitive include models which would have severe CG<BR>>change with the
fuel depletion...<BR>><BR>>If you think a Sportsman competitor needs to
be able to run 2 times through<BR>>the sequence nonstop, you probably also
think everyone needs to buy a $3000<BR>>plane, capable of flying the
Masters sequence, in order to try out<BR>>Sportsman. Its totaly
unnecessary, inappropriate and shuts out
beginners.<BR>><BR>>FHH<BR>><< ClearDayBkgrd.JPG
>><BR><BR><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Be
seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams <BR><A
title=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
href="http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline">http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline</A><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
title=http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>