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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am guessing that density altitude may have a
factor for some also? Don't know but it would make sense to
me..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Del</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 18, 2006 12:41
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] cost of
electric</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The whole watts per lb idea is a very quick and dirty approximation
method - which doesn't mean it can't be useful, but other variables can
seriously affect the performance - </DIV>
<DIV>- desired vertical / thrust</DIV>
<DIV>- desired airspeed / pitchspeed</DIV>
<DIV>- drag of airframe</DIV>
<DIV>- efficiency of ESC and motor</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I've flown F3A on 1600 watts in a 10 lb plane, and the vertical was
unlimited, but the top speed of the plane was very slow, and close to full
throttle was needed to lock in for rolling maneuvers. Not a practical
setup, and not flyable in wind. Trading vertical (thrust) for airspeed
(pitchspeed), you can have plenty of power for moderate sized loops, and
enough speed to be able to cruise at a reduced power setting. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Fred Huber"
<fhhuber@clearwire.com> <BR><BR>> Watts per pound is a very good
indicator of electric model preformance <BR>> regardless of size.
<BR>> <BR>> 100 watts per pound is appx equal to 1:1 power:weight.
<BR>> <BR>> Thus, we can be compareing "apples to apples" regardless
of the size <BR>> difference. <BR>> <BR>> Intermediate.. I would
"reprop" the Quest to appx 1000 watts. (the power <BR>> system is capable
of it.. its just a bit harder on the batteries.) I have a <BR>> 13X6.5 on
the motor, and its rated for a 14X8 (for appx 1200 watts) on the <BR>>
batteries I am using. <BR>> <BR>> I made the prop choice to get 15+
min per charge "sport" flying the model. <BR>> Its closer to 11 min doing
the Pattern. Repropping for more power. My <BR>> reading indicates that
if you want ! the LiP os to last, you want 15 min <BR>> capacity.
<BR>> <BR>> ********** <BR>> <BR>> And... the main reason I
responded to the topic was... <BR>> <BR>> >>>>> Wow,
That is a bit out of my price range! <BR>> <BR>> Maybe the lesser
performance of a system that is sized for a bit lower <BR>> power:weight
would meet his needs... Entry level (Sportsman) Pattern need <BR>> not
cost a couple of thousand $$$$. a common 4 ch basic radio and an ARF
<BR>> similar to the Quest is a good plan... for that level. (a much
better plan <BR>> than some other planes I tried...) <BR>> <BR>>
Being able to get the WHOLE PACKAGE in the air electric powered, with the
<BR>> charger and even including the RC system for appx $1000 may make a
<BR>> difference. <BR>> <BR>> ******** <BR>> <BR>> BTW..
there's a power package (motor, batt and ESC) which would have been <BR>>
appropriate to the Quest, (or other .90 size, light, low cos! t Patte rn/3D
<BR>> ARF's) For Sportsman level (rated for 900 watts max on the motor
and ESC) <BR>> which costs $150 less than the power packge I set up.
But.. You can't <BR>> re-prop it up for Intermediate... <BR>> <BR>>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Scott Anderson"
<SCOTT@RCFOAMY.COM><BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006
8:47 PM <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] cost of electric <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> >I believe the Quest is a small plane (Specifications:)
<BR>> > Wingspan: 68.5" <BR>> > Wing Area: 1000 sq. in. <BR>>
> Ready-to-fly weight: 7.5 - 8.5 lbs. <BR>> > Length: 69" <BR>>
> <BR>> > We are not doing a even comparison to a 2 meter plane..
<BR>> > <BR>> > I fly intermediate and will be moving to
advanced next year and its still <BR>> > nice to have extra power...
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Scot! t Ander son <BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> > From: "paul.horan" <PAUL.HORAN@SBCGLOBAL.NET><BR>> > To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > Sent:
Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:35 PM <BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] cost of electric <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
>> Scott, <BR>> >> I have seen Fred's Quest fly - it is
electric and it is more than <BR>> >> sufficient for sportsman and
the beginning of intermediate. <BR>> >> I believe he is correct in
his statement. <BR>> >> Thanks, <BR>> >> Paul <BR>>
>> <BR>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >>
From: "Scott Anderson" <SCOTT@RCFOAMY.COM><BR>> >> To: "NSRCA
Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >> Sent:
Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:17 PM <BR>> >> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] cost of electri! c <BR>& gt; >> <BR>>
>> <BR>> >>> Fred, <BR>> >>> <BR>>
>>> 100 watts per pound is marginal for pattern.. <BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>> And I don"t fly Masters ! <BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>> Just my 2 cents.. <BR>> >>>
<BR>> >>> Scott Anderson <BR>> >>> Team
Tanicpacks.com <BR>> >>> Team Castle Creations <BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> >>> From: "Fred Huber"
<FHHUBER@CLEARWIRE.COM><BR>> >>> To:
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >>> Sent: Sunday,
September 17, 2006 9:12 PM <BR>> >>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] cost of electric <BR>> >>> <BR>>
>>> <BR>> >>>> The costs they listed are for a plane
competitive at Masters or above. <BR>> >>>> Sportsman simply
doesn't require the same p! erforma nce from the model. <BR>>
>>>> (each <BR>> >>>> successive level demands
more from the plane and pilot) <BR>> >>>> <BR>>
>>>> Sportsman (flying the schedule used the past couple of
years) level <BR>> >>>> needs <BR>> >>>> appx
100 watts/ lb and you can get a decent e-power plane set up for <BR>>
>>>> close <BR>> >>>> to half the cost. (probably
less, as prices are comming down) <BR>> >>>> <BR>>
>>>> It depends on the performance level you want or need. I
believe the <BR>> >>>> setup <BR>> >>>> Nat
recommends approaches 200 or 250 watts/lb in an 11 lb plane... <BR>>
>>>> Desireable for the HUGE verticals with rolls on up lines at
Masters and <BR>> >>>> FAI <BR>> >>>> level.
<BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>> ************* <BR>>
>>! ;>&g t; <BR>> >>>> BEST is to charge the
LiPos at no faster than 1C rate... so it takes 1 <BR>> >>>>
hr <BR>> >>>> for a fully depleted pack. <BR>>
>>>> <BR>> >>>> don't forget to get a cell
ballancer, and a Wattmeter. Adds appx $75 <BR>> >>>> to
<BR>> >>>> the <BR>> >>>> bill. ($25 for Astro
Blinkey... and $50 for the wattmeter).. but the <BR>> >>>>
ballancer increases the life of the LiPos, (and makes charging safer)
<BR>> >>>> and <BR>> >>>> the wattmeter allows
you to test the power draw with assorted props, to <BR>> >>>>
ensure you aren't overloading something. <BR>> >>>> <BR>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >>>>
From: "Kelly Regan" <KELLY.REGAN2@VERIZON.NET><BR>> >>>> To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR!>> &
gt;>>> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:44 PM <BR>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] cost of electric <BR>>
>>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>>>
Wow, That is a bit out of my price range! <BR>> >>>>> My
Brio on gas idea is looking better! ;) <BR>> >>>>>
<BR>> >>>>> <BR>> >>>>> <BR>>
>>>>> Nat Penton wrote: <BR>> >>>>>>
Kelly <BR>> >>>>>> My experience (from memory):
<BR>> >>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> Plett
EVO and ESC About $800 <BR>> >>>>>> TP 5300 5S 4P Check
Website <BR>> >>>>>> 2 - Astro 109 chargers 280
<BR>> >>>>>> 12v Iota power supply 90 <BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> If you use 75%
capacity it will take 35 to 45 minutes to charge the <BR>&! gt; >
;>>>>> batteries. 2C charging will not hurt the batteries but
you cannot get <BR>> >>>>>> more <BR>>
>>>>>> than 8amps out of the Astros. I still like the
Astros and, when in <BR>> >>>>>> the <BR>>
>>>>>> shop, <BR>> >>>>>> charge the
batteries in parallel. Balancing is no problem. <BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> The Iota is a
great piece of equipmment and will easily handle four <BR>>
>>>>>> Astro <BR>> >>>>>> 109s. Nat
<BR>> >>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> >>>>>> From: "Kelly Regan"
<KELLY.REGAN2@VERIZON.NET><BR>> >>>>>> To:
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >>>>>> Sent:
Saturday, September 16, 2006 5:40 PM <BR>> >>>>>>
Subjec! t: [NSR CA-discussion] cost of electric <BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>> Can someone
post the cost of a 2 meter electric setup. <BR>>
>>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>> Motor
<BR>> >>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>>
Speed Control <BR>> >>>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>>> Battery size and cost <BR>>
>>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>> Also how
long does it take to charge one battery pack at a <BR>>
>>>>>>> reasonable rate, something that won't kill the
battery life. <BR>> >>>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for the help. <BR>>
>>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>>> -- <BR>> >>>>>>> Kel!
ly Rega n <BR>> >>>>>>> Visit the Georgetown Branch:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6uror/ <BR>> >>>>>>>
Freestate Aeromodelers: http://www.freestateaeromodelers.org/ <BR>>
>>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>>
_______________________________________________ <BR>>
>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>>
>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>>
>>>>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>>
>>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>> --
<BR>> >>>>>>> Internal Virus Database is
out-of-date. <BR>> >>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free
Edition. <BR>> >>>>>>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus
Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: <BR>> >>>>!
;>&g t;> 9/4/2006 <BR>> >>>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>>> <BR>> >>>>>> <BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>>> -- <BR>>
>>>>> Kelly Regan <BR>> >>>>> Visit the
Georgetown Branch: http://mysite.verizon.net/vze6uror/ <BR>>
>>>>> Freestate Aeromodelers:
http://www.freestateaeromodelers.org/ <BR>> >>>>> <BR>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
<BR>> >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>>
>>>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>>
>>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>>> <BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>&g! t;> -- <BR>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. <BR>>
>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. <BR>>
>>>>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 -
Release Date: <BR>> >>>>> 9/15/2006 <BR>>
>>>>> <BR>> >>>> <BR>> >>>>
_______________________________________________ <BR>> >>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>>
>>>> <BR>> >>> <BR>> >>>
_______________________________________________ <BR>> >>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> _______________________________________________
<BR>&g! t; > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >>
<BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________
<BR>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> >
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > -- <BR>> > No virus found in
this incoming message. <BR>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. <BR>>
> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.4/449 - Release Date:
9/15/2006 <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion
mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </BLOCKQUOTE>
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