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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> The trim problem happened with my
Prophecy,Focus,Phaseone,Smaragd,and Aggressor. Fiberglass fuse-Dave Brown
pushrod for elevator for prophecy and Focus,...Phaseone and deps.......Deps and
FG fuse on Smaragd and Deps and built-up fuse on the Aggressor. I have had it
happen on all these planes with changing temps. The first flt of the day- cool
temps, the 2nd flt at noon with a temp change around 15 degrees,will cause a
trim change.The ONLY time you won't have this happen is with 2 servos driving
the elevators. The least change with these temp changes is with deps and
built up fuse. You just have to anticipate it on the trim pass and your
good to go.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My story and I'm stickin'to it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim Ivey</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=edbon85@charter.net href="mailto:edbon85@charter.net">Ed Miller</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 11, 2006 7:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trimming
question.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I have the same issue with the EMC I'm flying. At
summers 90+ temperatures using a Futaba 9ZAP radio I have 2% up elevator with
right rudder and 4% up with left rudder for straight knife edge
flight. I noticed when the temps cooled to the 70's lately I had
to put 2 % down elevator trim in to fly straight and level at horizontal
flight cruise rpm.. Because of that touch of down elevator trim in
cool weather, I end up with a slight push to the belly in knife edge in both
directions. Plane has the DEPS system installed. I think what is
happening is the difference in growth between the fiberglass/wood fuse and
carbon fiber pushrods is causing the slight elevator trim change during
the temperature change which affects the knife edge flight. Or maybe the
cooler denser air requires less AOA in the wing. I don't see how
enabling the trim function in the rudder to elevator mix will fix this as the
rudder is the master channel. Unless I misunderstand, only a
rudder trim change would effect the elevator movement in the mix. I'm
open for suggestions...........</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>TIA.....Ed M. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=trexlesh@msn.com href="mailto:trexlesh@msn.com">Rex LESHER</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 11, 2006 6:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Trimming question.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><!--[gte IE 5]><?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->
<DIV
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Lucida Sans">
<DIV>actually, I think I confused myself... I meant to say, all
offset will be based from the current trim setting, not from the original
setup position....</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=mailto:trexlesh@msn.com href="mailto:trexlesh@msn.com">Rex
LESHER</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 11, 2006 3:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Trimming question.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><!--[gte IE 5]><?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->
<DIV>
<DIV>Just curious.... what radio are you using? Do you have
mixes set up for roll coupling? If so, do you have the
trims set to "active" in the mixes? If not, this could be the reason
for the pitching. Without active trim in the mixes, all offset will
be based from the original servo position in setup, not from the current
flying position after the trim was moved.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rex</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=mailto:Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au
href="mailto:Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au">Koenig, Tom</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 11, 2006
2:42 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Trimming question.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=573513321-11092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>All-Dean,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=573513321-11092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=573513321-11092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>I think you could be onto something there. I like to
fly on the edge of nose heavy, and I could sympathize with Colin. My
Synergy exhibits almost the same tendencies. It is not a heavy plane at
4.7 kg, but the CG is forward. Hmmmmmmm-you boys have me thinking again.
I notice it biggest when travelling as every field I go to is at lower
altitude. The biggest and costliest time was during the Trans Tasman
comp in New Zealand-it was like flying through soup!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=573513321-11092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=573513321-11092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>I have always assumed it was an air density thing. I have
experienced exactly what Colin describes.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=573513321-11092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=573513321-11092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Tom</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>Dean Pappas<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 12 September 2006 3:36
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Trimming question.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi
Colin,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>By any
chance, is your plane relatively heavy, have a particularly high wing
loading, propped to fly very slowly, or set up relatively
nose-heavy?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>The reason I
ask is that back in the late eighties, I clipped the wings of one
of my early Turnaround designs </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>in order to fly
faster.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT
face=Arial size=2>This was back when we were in the middle of a wild
overcorrection from flying slow and small in this country to flying
fast, fast, fast! Then things started to settle
down.</FONT></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>Actually, I
clipped it twice, once from 68" span to 64" and then to 60. I
should have left the plane at 64" span. When I made the second clip, the
plane developed </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>almost
the same </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT
face=Arial size=2>symptom you described. It pulled to the canopy in the
vertical down line when the elevator was trimmed for a hot
day.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>It also
looked like it flew droopy-drawered (tail low) on hot days. I moved the
CG back until the elevators looked like they were in exactly the same
spot, and lived with what little was left.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial
size=2>There was no suitable electronic fix back then, with either
a Futaba PCM 512 or a JR PCM9.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial size=2>My
hypothesis is that the sensitivity to air density happens when the plane
requires lots of "up" trim to fly. What do the elevators look like when
trimmed on a hot day?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=571581117-11092006><FONT face=Arial
size=2>later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>colin chariandy<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 11, 2006 9:53
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Trimming question.<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>No, I'm using the MK bellcrank.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If the problem was only related to the length of the pushrods,
then when I re-trim the knife edge performance should return to
normal. Thats not the case. The plane pushes to the bottom in the cold
and is dead straight on hot days.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Colin.<BR><BR><B><I>Lance Van Nostrand
<patterndude@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My guess is you have the deps
system. carbon fiber does not have as much shrinkage as the
rest of your plane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:cchariandy@yahoo.ca
href="mailto:cchariandy@yahoo.ca">colin chariandy</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 10,
2006 11:09 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Trimming question.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I noticed recently that I need to add a bit of down trim as
the air temperature drops....maybe as much as 4 beebs going from
30+ days to 15C. That upsets the knife edge trim on the aircraft.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Is that normal, or do I have something set a bit marginally,
like CG or wing incidence?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Do you guys typically have a "cold weather set-up" ?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Colin.</DIV>
<DIV>
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