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<DIV>A guy in north east flew a .60 size pattern bird with full flying wings,</DIV>
<DIV>and the usual retracts and pipe typical of the time.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It did fine, but showed no apparent advantage. Didn't see a snap</DIV>
<DIV>attempted. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ron Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "JShulman" <jshulman@cfl.rr.com> <BR>
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<DIV><SPAN class=610200518-05092006><FONT color=#0000ff size=3>If I remember correctly, I think everything was a full flying surface on it. I think Chip said is was smooth but wouldn't spin/snap.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT> </P>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Terry Brox<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:42 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Didnt Merle Hyde build a Dash 5 with complete wings movement for ailerons?</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 05, 2006 12:16 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I swear I've bought some ARF's that had helical ailerons. Trust me, It's not all that it's cracked up to be! (or maybe that was a mis-statement).</DIV>
<DIV>G.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 04, 2006 11:20 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=730511403-05092006>Yeah, or do the "flexiron" thing. You can make all kinds of cool shapes with 3 servos. The flexible aileron will interpolate the rest of the curve (somewhat). Think about it. Hey, maybe we should actually try this. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=730511403-05092006></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=730511403-05092006>
<P><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com/" target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 04, 2006 11:04 PM<BR><B>To:</B> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Now John may be on to something here....3 servos driving each aileron on a pattern plane. HMMMMM!!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If helical is what you want, cut the aileron 3 ways, proportional areas in each segment of course and drive it with Johns 3 preprogrammed servos. And you can use the smallest, fastest servos around so your response will be outasight. That's the ticket laddie, Ahuh....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>VBG</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think I'll open another bottle of Rafanelli '02, and continue toasting :)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Matt</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 9/4/2006 10:50:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, jpavlick@idseng.com writes:</DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN class=610271002-05092006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Now that sounds like the way to go! Except I think you actually need 3 servos to do it right. I'm setting up the mix on my 12z now...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=610271002-05092006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=610271002-05092006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>
<P>John Pavlick<BR><A title=http://www.idseng.com/ href="http://www.idseng.com/" target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com/</A><BR> </P></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>george w. kennie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 04, 2006 9:55 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>For cryin' out loud, if your going to go to all that trouble, use two servos per panel at the opposing extremes of each flexible aileron driving in opposite directions. Now that's HELICAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the heck have you guys been smokin' ?????????????? And I thought I was extreme. Are we in the "Twilight Zone" here? BGw?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mailto:patterndude@comcast.net href="mailto:patterndude@comcast.net">Lance Van Nostrand</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 04, 2006 9:05 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Helical pitch ailerons! Nat, this is brilliant. Instead of making stiff ailerons, make them to flex. glue the tip to the wing tip and drive the root end. Ailerons would work just like a 74x6 propeller.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:31 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Hey Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'm not providing solutions - just putt'in more wood on the fire. In steady state roll the least drag position of the ailerons would be constant AOA root to tip. This would call for the percentage of chord to progress linearly so that it would be double at the tip vs the mid span position - no different than helical pitch. </FONT><FONT face=Arial>A ( severe ?) negative would occur, though, when the ailerons are initiated, potentially causing a tip stall.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Martin Simmons provides a curve showing Cl vs % of chord for the aileron. Going over 20% doesen't get you much for the dollar - just much more servo wear and tear ( especially with the 160 <G> ).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>IMO it is not worth the extra work to stop the ailerons short of the tip. Nat</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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