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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey Tom</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not providing solutions - just putt'in
more wood on the fire. In steady state roll the least drag position of the
ailerons would be constant AOA root to tip. This would call for the percentage
of chord to progress linearly so that it would be double at the tip vs the mid
span position - no different than helical pitch. </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>A ( severe ?) negative would occur, though, when the ailerons are
initiated, potentially causing a tip stall.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Martin Simmons provides a curve showing Cl vs % of
chord for the aileron. Going over 20% doesen't get you much for the dollar
- just much more servo wear and tear ( especially with the 160 <G>
).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>IMO it is not worth the extra work to stop the
ailerons short of the
tip.
Nat</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au
href="mailto:Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au">Koenig, Tom</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 03, 2006 6:46
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero
design question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Hi lads,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>This is what I have found to work well on my Merlin designs.
Now,I am ready to be corrected by those much more knowledgeable than myself-I
just do things empirically!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff>I
ended up using a percentage of the span of the panel (60% in my case). I have
tried various sizes, but somewhere in the 55-65 percentage area worked
well. I also came in from the tip by 30 mm, to get the aileron out of the
tip vortex. Now that I am flying a Synergy with the ailerons running all the
way out, I'm not so sure how much of a difference it makes. Maybe servo life
is a bit shorter, but that is hard to quantify with the YS shaking things to
bits anyway. As far as aileron chord dimension goes, well, I have tried
various sizes there too, and I do use different percentages at the tip vs
inboard aileron. I actually like to run a slightly smaller percentage at the
tip. I felt it to give me a more 'linear' feel to the aileron.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff>I
also applied this to 'elevator' design. I wanted the tips of the elevator to
be less effective. I felt it helped pull corners better afterwards, as in this
case the inboard section is doing more of the work. But now I am running
a straight elevator hinge line on the
Synergy...............L.O.L</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>It all gets very confusing, and in the end, what does it
all mean in 30 knot cross wind, sun in your eyes and thermals to
boot???</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Trim as good as possible, burn heaps of fuel ( or charge them
packs) and learn to fly the PIGS!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=488440723-03092006><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
color=#0000ff>Ofcourse good design helps.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT color=#0000ff>T<SPAN
class=488440723-03092006>om</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Dean
Pappas<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, 3 September 2006 4:58 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design
question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Gang,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=3>The excellent axial rolling charecteristic of
some designs is due to a lot more than where the inboard end of the ailerons
end. Nonetheless, all of my designs used ailerons that ended far from the
fuse! The only downside is that having a bit of aileron in front of the stab
offers a useful trimming tool: trailing the ailerons up or down will change
the effective stab incidence, and this was a powerful adjustment tool back
when we didn't have plug-in adjustable "everything".</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You note Akiba's well trimmed airplanes. There is some smart design
going on there!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>later,</DIV>
<DIV> Dean</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>-----Original Message----- <BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org on behalf of John Ferrell
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sat 9/2/2006 7:48 AM <BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List
<BR><B>Cc:</B> <BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Aero design
question<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have spent a fair amount of time
considering this situation. I have concluded there is no reason to take
the risk of adding unnecessary turbulence to the empennage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In gentle maneuvering it probably has little
effect. In aggressive maneuvering (think snaps) it likely leads to
inconsistent behavior. Inboard ailerons may contribute additional
available force in 3D maneuvers (hanging on prop?). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Other related considerations are aileron
shape and the hinging geometry. I also suspect fat fuselages reduce these
effects by dispersing the turbulence over a greater volume of
air.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Just my two cents worth!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Ferrell W8CCW<BR>"My
Competition is not my enemy"<BR><A
href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=pentagon.systems@bigpond.com
href="mailto:pentagon.systems@bigpond.com">Peter Pennisi</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 01, 2006
8:35 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Aero
design question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My current
model has ailerons which extend a fair way towards the fuselage
(Comp-ARF IMPACT) What effect does the turbulence coming off the aileron
have on the tail plane. I am currently building another IMPACT (IMHO
flies extremely well) which I am considering to reduce their size by
cutting and fixing the inboard part to the wing in an attempt to clean
up the airflow over the tail plane during rolling maneuvers . The
model does roll well but it could be better.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Am I barking up
the wrong tree – any thoughts!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Peter
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P>
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