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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=GramE><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>An interesting
experiment.</span></font></span><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> I’m almost tempted
to try it using the temp probe control on my Accu Cycle – using a low
cost pack of course. Just increase the charge rate until it cuts off. Dean is
right, however, and these “experiments” should be in a controlled
and fail safe environment.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 18, 2006 7:27
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
charging</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><<<<So you
were charging at 5C with a standard 2-wire to the battery charger? Please be
careful, my friend.>>>></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Yup,
Deano. Like I said, I'm not advocating that everybody do
this. My principle reason for doing the experiment was to determine if there
was a threshold for generating excessive heat within the pack, which did not
manifest itself. The charging was done in an area 50 feet from everything to
insure safety.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>G.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 3.0pt;
margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com" title="d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday,
August 18, 2006 2:59 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] charging<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Hi Georgie,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>What I remember the
guys at that seminar said was something more like:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>If and only if:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>1) your charger balances
continually and terminates charge if at any point it cannot maintain balance as
the charge progresses,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>2) your battery is a high
charge/discharge rate cell ( 15C or 20C rated)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>3) your charger
terminates if for any reason any one cell hits 4.2V</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>then you can charge at up
to 3C</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Of course, the charger
they were selling was built to satisfy #1 and #3. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Thunder-Power
does something similar with a two-component system. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>So you were charging at
5C with a standard 2-wire to the battery charger? Please be careful, my friend.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dean Pappas <br>
Sr. Design Engineer <br>
Kodeos Communications <br>
111 Corporate Blvd. <br>
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080 <br>
(908) 222-7817 phone <br>
(908) 222-2392 fax <br>
d.pappas@kodeos.com <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 18, 2006 2:00
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
charging</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>This is just an FYI based on my
experience.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>At the WRAM Show I attended a
seminar by the Kokam Battery guys and was advised that it would be
completely safe to charge my Lithium Poly batteries at a rate of 3C if one was
using one of their Balance Pro Chargers. Well, needless to say, I didn't
purchase one of their chargers, however, after hearing about several
others who were charging at 3C I decided that I would try the 3C rate and find
out what my experience would be like.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I have some small packs for foamies
so I decided to try one of them expecting to find some negative result, but the
opposite seemed to be the case. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A couple of weeks ago I attended a
contest where I was shooting my mouth off about how I had been charging at 3C
and was brought up short by one of those listening and advised that charging at
this rate would cause the batteries to overheat, to which I responded rather
emphatically that my batteries were remaining cool. This particular gentleman
became rather insensed and insistant that he knew for a fact that the heat
build-up would be destructive to the health of the batteries. The
gentleman walked away with a look of disgust and I felt bad that I had come
across so forcefully (happens too often).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Well, the gist of all this is that
this A.M. I went to the flying field and informed all in attendance that I was
intending to perform and experiment in which I would charge a Lithium Poly
pack in 12 minutes at a rate of 5C and we would see what would happen, I being
ready to sacrifice the pack if that indeed took place. Well, in 12 minutes
exactly, the charger shut down and indicated that charge completion had
occurred. I immediately disconnected the pack and ran to the rest of the group
in attendance and had everybody feel the temperature of the pack and to
everyone's amazement the pack was not even luke warm. I subsequently flew the
pack and thought that I got a little longer flight time than I normally do
(probably all in my head). Now, these packs have never been balanced, and in
fact have no balance plugs.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So, am I recommending that everyone
start charging at 5C? Definitely not ! I'm certainly no battery guru, but
I am of the opinion that there may be a lot more for us to learn about the
current technology and I'm certain the developments in the near future will
surprise many (including me).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Georgie</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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