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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Why don't you ask Ryan McLaughlin about
the slower flying pilots. Ryan just won Masters at NATS flying an Impact
with an OS-160. I judged one prelim round and Ryan clearly was one of the
fastest, if not the fastest, flying pilots in the round. His flying in the
prelims, when wind wasn't a factor, easily earned him a spot in the finals. Then
in the finals when it was blowing like crazy I'm sure this speed worked to his
advantage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My point being, in both calm and windy weather he
scored very well flying fast and accurate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=twtaylor@ftc-i.net href="mailto:twtaylor@ftc-i.net">twtaylor</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:39
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007
Masters... clarify on Item20</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Just like my question
about the speed of the aircraft, if it’s smooth and graceful in the flying,
there’s no room for a down/up grade for points due to my flight being 20 mph
faster than the next guys. Yet someone says that slower is more grace full so
it should score better. I give up.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Dean Pappas<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:34
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007
Masters... clarify on Item20</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Point well made,
Terry! The wordsmithing can almost always use help, and even with our best
efforts, it's going to be an iterative
process.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Do we have any good
contract writers out there? If we take one of those, and cross him/her with an
English teacher, we could breed our own race of rules writers
...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Matt is right, part
of the art of wind correction is in hiding the fixes. If the judge didn't see
it, then it just ain't! Everything else is
details.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">later
Friends,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dean</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dean
Pappas <BR>Sr. Design Engineer <BR>Kodeos Communications <BR>111 Corporate
Blvd. <BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">South
Plainfield</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">N.J.</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">07080</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> <BR>(908) 222-7817 phone
<BR>(908) 222-2392 fax <BR>d.pappas@kodeos.com <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Terry Brox<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:26
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007
Masters... clarify on Item20</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Actually, yes, but I was also
trying to prove the point that there is a gray area in our rules that people
only assume. The fact is, I cant find anything that would directly address
that kind of correction. Only the the description of beginning and ending
with a straight line. If I were a lawyer/argumentive type, I think there
would be quite an argument that could be raised. If there is something in
the rule book that does address this, tell where to look other than the
normal "smooth and gracefull" section. Nice to see the list busy again. LOL
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean
Pappas</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:24 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You're being
funny ... right?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dean
Pappas <BR>Sr. Design Engineer <BR>Kodeos Communications <BR>111 Corporate
Blvd. <BR><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">South
Plainfield</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">N.J.</st1:State>
<st1:PostalCode w:st="on">07080</st1:PostalCode></st1:place> <BR>(908)
222-7817 phone <BR>(908) 222-2392 fax <BR><A
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Terry Brox<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:14
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
2007 Masters... clarify on Item20</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Would that mean that the
"dead" zone between the exit line of one maneuver and the entry line of
another, if there is sufficient distance, could be used to reposition
the craft on a new heading. In othere words, turn 90 degrees to the
flight path then back 90 degrees as to move out or in if necessary? From
this, one would assume the "dead" zone should not be judged.
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message
----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w.
kennie</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:41 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><EM><B><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><<<Calling of box
entry must be done so there is a minimum of a 15 meter straight line
before the first maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will begin then.
(As the lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and
are always judged). Calling of exiting the box must be done after a
minimum of a 15 meter straight line after the maneuver.
Judging will cease at that
point.>>></SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><EM><B><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I think what's being
slightly overlooked is the word "minimum". We used to be required to
call "the box" at the pole, (which is the way it should still be done,
but I can't change that) but some ill informed people had that
requirement altered. Why do you think that the word "minimum" is
inserted at that point in the wording? It's not because that's
where the box needs to be called, ( the box can be called at any point
between the pole and the 15 meter point) it's because the entry and
exit lines, for every maneuver, are required to be 15 meters in
length. This "minimum' requirement specifies that this is so, if
not by pronouncement then by inference. To me this is quite clear,
however, the thing that we can't substantiate even by inference is
whether or not the exit line from one maneuver can also serve as the
entry line for the upcoming maneuver, eliminating the perception of
the need for 30 meters between maneuvers. I have seen instances where
this requirement created a very real test of the box constraints and
would like to see a resolution of this particular conflict. My feeling
is that a superimposition should be acceptable, but that would have to
appear in writing
somewhere.</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><EM><B><I><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Georgie</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message
----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=don.ramsey@cox.net href="mailto:don.ramsey@cox.net">Don
Ramsey</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:51 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">First, to be clear on the Masters 2/2 Slow
Roll Opposite. Center is defined only after the maneuver ends.
Where did it start, where did it end and only then, was the entire
maneuver centered?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I'm currently gathering information for the
next year's judging materials so this discussion is great.
Interesting points on entry and exit lines. The rules are not
clear. Consider this, the box entry must be called 15 meters
before the first maneuver begins. Each maneuver begins
and ends with a straight line. Here's the quotes from the rules:
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><STRONG><B><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic">Calling of box entry
must be done so there is a minimum of a 15 meter straight line
before the first maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will begin then.
(As the lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and
are always judged). Calling of exiting the box must be done after a
minimum of a 15 meter straight line after the maneuver.
Judging will cease at that
point.</SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Let's take that a little further. It
seems to say, since a line is part of the first maneuver in a
sequence then calling the box entry should be done 30 meters before
maneuvering starts. I don't think that was the intent of the
rule.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">and more on
lines:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><STRONG><B><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic">Lines-All aerobatic
maneuvers are started and ended by a horizontal line. When no line
is flown between two (2) scored maneuvers, the upcoming maneuver
should be downgraded by two (2) points.
</SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><B><I><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic"><BR><STRONG><B><FONT
face="Times New Roman">
All lines within a maneuver have a beginning and end which define
their length. The length of a line should only be graded when a
maneuver contains several lines with a given relationship, as in a
square
loop.</FONT></B></STRONG></SPAN></FONT></I></B><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>I don't think entry/exit lines have a
beginning and end which define their lengths and if they don't they
should not be used for centering determination. Since the
entry and exit lines to a maneuver can and are often different
lengths that would imply those centered maneuvers where they are
different should be downgraded. A good example would be a
turnaround of a half cuban eight, a centered maneuver then a stall
turn for the other turnaround. Should the centered maneuver be
downgraded in this case since the entry and exit lines are of
different lengths? Also, the maneuver descriptions never say,
"Model draws a horizontal line, (remainder of
description) ...." The rules never say the entry
and exit lines must be 15 meters only that they must be
there. The implication is, entry/exit lines should not
be used in determining centering.<BR><BR>Must there be 30 meters
between maneuvers? I disagree with Derek here.
Here are the rules on lines. <BR><BR><STRONG><B><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">"(As the
lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and are
always judged)." </SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic"><BR><STRONG><B><FONT
face="Times New Roman">
</FONT></B></STRONG></SPAN></I></B></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">then later</SPAN></FONT>
<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><EM><B><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"The judge should form an
image of the forthcoming maneuver based on using the straight and
level entry identified in section D, Judging Individual Maneuvers,
as a reference. The absence of a definite entry into a maneuver
increases the difficulty of judging its precision and competitors
will recognize this as justification for downgrading. The straight
and level exit from a maneuver is one of the more valuable portions
of a maneuver in evaluating how well the intended course of the
maneuver was followed. Therefore, the absence of a well
defined straight and level exit should also result in downgrading.
In all cases, straight and level flight means flight parallel to the
flightline, at a constant altitude, and with wings
level."</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><B><I><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic"><BR><EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> </FONT></I></EM></SPAN></FONT></I></B><BR><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Section D does not include any
reference to entry/exit lines. It appears there only need be a
definite or well defined line into and out of maneuvers. That
length is not specified. There is also nothing to preclude the
exit line from one maneuver being the entry line into the
next. Again, the maneuver descriptions do not include the
entry/exit lines in their text.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This needs to be corrected in the next rule
cycle.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sorry for the
rambling,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Don</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT>----- Original Message
----- <BR>From: "Derek Koopowitz"
<derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>To: "'<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Tuesday, August
15, 2006 1:04 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters...
clarify on Item20<BR><BR><BR>> Straight from the rule book on all
counts. The 15 meter rule for straight<BR>> line applies to
entering and leaving the box as well. Refer to page 72.
<BR>> <BR>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/compreg.asp<BR>>
<BR>> Calling of box entry must be done so there is a minimum of
a 15 meter<BR>> straight line before the first maneuver. Judging
of the maneuver will begin<BR>> then. (As the lines into and out
of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and<BR>> are always
judged). Calling of exiting the box must be done after a
minimum<BR>> of a 15 meter straight line after the maneuver.
Judging will cease at that<BR>> point.<BR>> <BR>> If there
isn't a defined straight line between maneuvers then the
upcoming<BR>> maneuver is downgraded 2 points (see my comment
below). The length of that<BR>> line should be 30+ meters
in order to receive no downgrade.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Huber<BR>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:53 PM<BR>> To:
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName><BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007
Masters... clarify on Item20<BR>> <BR>> you didn't read the
whole thing I posted.... Looks like you responded to the<BR>>
part before "sorry"<BR>> <BR>> You have a 15 meter straight
line definition... I'm not sure if thats from<BR>> the rulebook
or not... That would be appx 7 fuselage lengths.<BR>>
<BR>> But.... does that just apply to the enter and leave
box? or does there have<BR>> to be a 30 meter (or 2 X 15
meter segments with the un-judged corrections<BR>> between
them... there's not much room for track corrections this way)
<BR>> straight line between consecutive maneuvers? Or
is the way I have thought <BR>> it was correct... no defined
straight line lenght between maneuvers, just a<BR>> definite
straight line established?<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>> From: "Derek Koopowitz"
<derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>> To: "'<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> Sent: Monday,
August 14, 2006 11:24 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>>
Fred,<BR>>><BR>>> If what you say is the case then every
maneuver would be impossible to <BR>>> judge<BR>>> and
that is why we have the the following:<BR>>><BR>>> Page
72:<BR>>><BR>>> Calling of box entry must be done so
there is a minimum of a 15 meter<BR>>> straight line before
the first maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will <BR>>>
begin<BR>>> then. (As the lines into and out of maneuvers are
part of the maneuver and<BR>>> are always judged). Calling of
exiting the box must be done after a <BR>>>
minimum<BR>>> of a 15 meter straight line after the
maneuver.<BR>>><BR>>> Page 77:<BR>>><BR>>> .
Lines-All aerobatic maneuvers are started and ended by a horizontal
<BR>>> line.<BR>>> When no line is flown<BR>>>
between two (2) scored maneuvers, the upcoming maneuver should be
<BR>>> downgraded<BR>>> by two (2)
points.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> The generally accepted
length of that line is 15 meters.<BR>>><BR>>> So add 15
meters to the beginning of, and end of, each maneuver and you
<BR>>> can<BR>>> figure out the center for those
maneuvers that have different rolling<BR>>> elements such as
2/2 point roll followed by an opposite slow
roll.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> ---Original
Message-----<BR>>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Huber<BR>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:57 PM<BR>>>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>><BR>>> OK.. then its impossible to downgrade
THIS maneuver for centering if the<BR>>> straight lines are
part of it.... Because there is no definite attitude
<BR>>> of<BR>>> the model that can be associated with
center, and the line start and end<BR>>> can't be defined,
since there's also straight line exit from the previous<BR>>>
maneuver and entry to the following.<BR>>><BR>>>
Sorry.<BR>>><BR>>> Has to be start of rolling and end of
rolling for centering reference and<BR>>> assumed same length
straight at each end. (which can be just one fuselage<BR>>>
length... maybe less since the length is not
defined...)<BR>>><BR>>> If you don't assume same length
straight lines... you can't judge center <BR>>> on<BR>>>
anything.... even a simple loop.<BR>>><BR>>> You can
purposely shoot for roll rates that center the inverted....
but <BR>>> as<BR>>> noted... a slow roll probably SHOULD
be slower roll rate than the rate for<BR>>> the 2/2.
which would be likely put put you somewhere in the slow
roll<BR>>> portion at center.<BR>>><BR>>> -----
Original Message -----<BR>>> From: "Derek Koopowitz"
<derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>>> To: "'<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>> Sent: Monday,
August 14, 2006 10:10 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>> The entire maneuver
is judged including the straight lines. Each <BR>>>>
maneuver<BR>>>> as defined in our rules starts and ends
with a straight line.<BR>>>><BR>>>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>>>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Earl
Haury<BR>>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:55
PM<BR>>>> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName><BR>>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>>><BR>>>> Actually, while the straight
line "before" and "after" the maneuver is<BR>>>> required
the names (of the lines) themselves define that they are
not<BR>>>> "included" in the maneuver. Rolls start when the
aircraft begins to roll<BR>>>> (for the first element) and
end when it stops rolling (the final <BR>>>>
element).<BR>>>><BR>>>>
Earl<BR>>>><BR>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>> From: "Derek Koopowitz"
<derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>>>> To:
"'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>> Sent:
Monday, August 14, 2006 9:19 PM<BR>>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>> Not
necessarily - since the maneuver is made up of two different
rolling<BR>>>>> elements the center of the maneuver is
the center of the two components<BR>>>>> including the
straight line before and after the maneuver. Since the
<BR>>>>> 2/2<BR>>>>> point roll will be done
a lot faster than the slow roll the maneuver <BR>>>>>
will<BR>>>>> start early and the 2 point roll will
finish long before center prior to<BR>>>>>
the<BR>>>>> slow roll beginning. What the
pilot/judge needs to do is visualize <BR>>>>>
where<BR>>>>> the maneuver starts including the straight
flight portion and where it<BR>>>>>
will<BR>>>>> end after the slow roll including the
straight flight portion and<BR>>>>>
position<BR>>>>> the maneuver
accordingly.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>>>>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf
Of<BR>>>>> jivey61@bellsouth.net<BR>>>>>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:18 PM<BR>>>>> To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>> Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> I am directing this
to Don Ramsey.<BR>>>>> Where is the center of the 2/2pt
roll,slow roll opposite. It seems it<BR>>>>>
would<BR>>>>> be between the 2/2pt and the slow
roll opposite.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
TIA<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>>>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>>>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>><BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>
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