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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just like my question about the speed of
the aircraft, if it’s smooth and graceful in the flying, there’s no
room for a down/up grade for points due to my flight being 20 mph faster than
the next guys. Yet someone says that slower is more grace full so it should
score better. I give up.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dean Pappas<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, August 16, 2006
9:34 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
2007 Masters... clarify on Item20</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Point well made, Terry! The wordsmithing
can almost always use help, and even with our best efforts, it's going to be an
iterative process.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Do we have any good contract writers out
there? If we take one of those, and cross him/her with an English teacher, we
could breed our own race of rules writers ...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Matt is right, part of the art of wind
correction is in hiding the fixes. If the judge didn't see it, then it just
ain't! Everything else is details.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>later Friends,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2
color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>Dean</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dean
Pappas <br>
Sr. Design Engineer <br>
Kodeos Communications <br>
111 Corporate Blvd. <br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">South Plainfield</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">N.J.</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">07080</st1:PostalCode></st1:place>
<br>
(908) 222-7817 phone <br>
(908) 222-2392 fax <br>
d.pappas@kodeos.com <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Terry Brox<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 15, 2006
10:26 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
2007 Masters... clarify on Item20</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Actually, yes, but I was also trying to prove the point that
there is a gray area in our rules that people only assume. The fact is, I cant
find anything that would directly address that kind of correction. Only the the
description of beginning and ending with a straight line. If I were a
lawyer/argumentive type, I think there would be quite an argument that could be
raised. If there is something in the rule book that does address this, tell
where to look other than the normal "smooth and gracefull" section.
Nice to see the list busy again. LOL </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com" title="d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
15, 2006 1:24 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>You're being funny ... right?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dean
Pappas <br>
Sr. Design Engineer <br>
Kodeos Communications <br>
111 Corporate Blvd. <br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">South Plainfield</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">N.J.</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">07080</st1:PostalCode></st1:place>
<br>
(908) 222-7817 phone <br>
(908) 222-2392 fax <br>
<a href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Terry Brox<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 15, 2006
2:14 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
2007 Masters... clarify on Item20</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Would that mean that the "dead" zone between the
exit line of one maneuver and the entry line of another, if there is sufficient
distance, could be used to reposition the craft on a new heading. In othere
words, turn 90 degrees to the flight path then back 90 degrees as to move out
or in if necessary? From this, one would assume the "dead" zone
should not be judged. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:geobet@gis.net" title="geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
15, 2006 12:41 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><i><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'><<<Calling of box entry must
be done so there is a minimum of a 15 meter straight line before the first
maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will begin then. (As the lines into and out
of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and are always judged). Calling of
exiting the box must be done after a minimum of a 15 meter straight line
after the maneuver. Judging will cease at that point.>>></span></font></i></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><i><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>I think what's being slightly
overlooked is the word "minimum". We used to be required to call
"the box" at the pole, (which is the way it should still be done, but
I can't change that) but some ill informed people had that requirement altered.
Why do you think that the word "minimum" is inserted at that point in
the wording? It's not because that's where the box needs to be called, (
the box can be called at any point between the pole and the 15 meter point)
it's because the entry and exit lines, for every maneuver, are required to be
15 meters in length. This "minimum' requirement specifies that this is
so, if not by pronouncement then by inference. To me this is quite clear,
however, the thing that we can't substantiate even by inference is whether or
not the exit line from one maneuver can also serve as the entry line for the
upcoming maneuver, eliminating the perception of the need for 30 meters between
maneuvers. I have seen instances where this requirement created a very real
test of the box constraints and would like to see a resolution of this
particular conflict. My feeling is that a superimposition should be acceptable,
but that would have to appear in writing somewhere.</span></font></i></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><i><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>Georgie</span></font></i></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:don.ramsey@cox.net" title="don.ramsey@cox.net">Don Ramsey</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, August
15, 2006 8:51 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>First, to be clear on the Masters 2/2 Slow Roll Opposite. Center
is defined only after the maneuver ends. Where did it start, where did it end
and only then, was the entire maneuver centered?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I'm currently gathering information for the next year's judging
materials so this discussion is great. Interesting points on entry and
exit lines. The rules are not clear. Consider this, the box entry
must be called 15 meters before the first maneuver begins. Each
maneuver begins and ends with a straight line. Here's the quotes from the
rules: </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><strong><b><i><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic'>Calling of box entry must be done so
there is a minimum of a 15 meter straight line before the first maneuver.
Judging of the maneuver will begin then. (As the lines into and out of maneuvers
are part of the maneuver and are always judged). Calling of exiting the box
must be done after a minimum of a 15 meter straight line after the
maneuver. Judging will cease at that point.</span></font></i></b></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Let's take that a little further. It seems to say, since a line
is part of the first maneuver in a sequence then calling the box entry should
be done 30 meters before maneuvering starts. I don't think that was the
intent of the rule.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>and more on lines:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><strong><b><i><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic'>Lines-All aerobatic maneuvers are
started and ended by a horizontal line. When no line is flown between two (2)
scored maneuvers, the upcoming maneuver should be downgraded by two (2) points.
</span></font></i></b></strong><b><i><font size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><br>
<strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">
All lines within a maneuver have a beginning and end which define their length.
The length of a line should only be graded when a maneuver contains several
lines with a given relationship, as in a square loop.</font></b></strong></span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><br>
I don't think entry/exit lines have a beginning and end which define their
lengths and if they don't they should not be used for centering
determination. Since the entry and exit lines to a maneuver can and
are often different lengths that would imply those centered maneuvers where
they are different should be downgraded. A good example would be a
turnaround of a half cuban eight, a centered maneuver then a stall turn for the
other turnaround. Should the centered maneuver be downgraded in this case
since the entry and exit lines are of different lengths? Also, the
maneuver descriptions never say, "Model draws a horizontal
line, (remainder of description) ...." The rules
never say the entry and exit lines must be 15 meters only that they must be
there. The implication is, entry/exit lines should not be used in
determining centering.<br>
<br>
Must there be 30 meters between maneuvers? I disagree with Derek here.
Here are the rules on lines. <br>
<br>
<strong><b><i><font face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-style:italic'>"(As
the lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and are always
judged)." </span></font></i></b></strong><b><i><span
style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><br>
<strong><b><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></b></strong></span></i></b></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>then later</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><em><b><i><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold'>"The judge should form an image
of the forthcoming maneuver based on using the straight and level entry identified
in section D, Judging Individual Maneuvers, as a reference. The absence of a
definite entry into a maneuver increases the difficulty of judging its
precision and competitors will recognize this as justification for downgrading.
The straight and level exit from a maneuver is one of the more valuable
portions of a maneuver in evaluating how well the intended course of the
maneuver was followed. Therefore, the absence of a well defined straight
and level exit should also result in downgrading. In all cases, straight and
level flight means flight parallel to the flightline, at a constant altitude,
and with wings level."</span></font></i></b></em><b><i><font size=2><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><br>
<em><i><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></i></em></span></font></i></b><br>
<font size=2><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Section D does not include any
reference to entry/exit lines. It appears there only need be a definite
or well defined line into and out of maneuvers. That length is not
specified. There is also nothing to preclude the exit line from one
maneuver being the entry line into the next. Again, the maneuver
descriptions do not include the entry/exit lines in their text.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>This needs to be corrected in the next rule cycle.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Sorry for the rambling,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Don</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font>----- Original Message ----- <br>
From: "Derek Koopowitz" <derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><br>
To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:04 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
<br>
<br>
> Straight from the rule book on all counts. The 15 meter rule for
straight<br>
> line applies to entering and leaving the box as well. Refer to page
72. <br>
> <br>
> http://www.modelaircraft.org/compreg.asp<br>
> <br>
> Calling of box entry must be done so there is a minimum of a 15 meter<br>
> straight line before the first maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will
begin<br>
> then. (As the lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and<br>
> are always judged). Calling of exiting the box must be done after a
minimum<br>
> of a 15 meter straight line after the maneuver. Judging will cease at that<br>
> point.<br>
> <br>
> If there isn't a defined straight line between maneuvers then the upcoming<br>
> maneuver is downgraded 2 points (see my comment below). The length
of that<br>
> line should be 30+ meters in order to receive no downgrade.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred Huber<br>
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:53 PM<br>
> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
> <br>
> you didn't read the whole thing I posted.... Looks like you responded to
the<br>
> part before "sorry"<br>
> <br>
> You have a 15 meter straight line definition... I'm not sure if thats from<br>
> the rulebook or not... That would be appx 7 fuselage lengths.<br>
> <br>
> But.... does that just apply to the enter and leave box? or does
there have<br>
> to be a 30 meter (or 2 X 15 meter segments with the un-judged corrections<br>
> between them... there's not much room for track corrections this
way) <br>
> straight line between consecutive maneuvers? Or is the way I
have thought <br>
> it was correct... no defined straight line lenght between maneuvers, just
a<br>
> definite straight line established?<br>
> <br>
> ----- Original Message -----<br>
> From: "Derek Koopowitz" <derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><br>
> To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 11:24 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>> Fred,<br>
>><br>
>> If what you say is the case then every maneuver would be impossible to
<br>
>> judge<br>
>> and that is why we have the the following:<br>
>><br>
>> Page 72:<br>
>><br>
>> Calling of box entry must be done so there is a minimum of a 15 meter<br>
>> straight line before the first maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will <br>
>> begin<br>
>> then. (As the lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver
and<br>
>> are always judged). Calling of exiting the box must be done after a <br>
>> minimum<br>
>> of a 15 meter straight line after the maneuver.<br>
>><br>
>> Page 77:<br>
>><br>
>> . Lines-All aerobatic maneuvers are started and ended by a horizontal <br>
>> line.<br>
>> When no line is flown<br>
>> between two (2) scored maneuvers, the upcoming maneuver should be <br>
>> downgraded<br>
>> by two (2) points.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> The generally accepted length of that line is 15 meters.<br>
>><br>
>> So add 15 meters to the beginning of, and end of, each maneuver and
you <br>
>> can<br>
>> figure out the center for those maneuvers that have different rolling<br>
>> elements such as 2/2 point roll followed by an opposite slow roll.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> ---Original Message-----<br>
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred Huber<br>
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:57 PM<br>
>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
>><br>
>> OK.. then its impossible to downgrade THIS maneuver for centering if
the<br>
>> straight lines are part of it.... Because there is no definite
attitude <br>
>> of<br>
>> the model that can be associated with center, and the line start and
end<br>
>> can't be defined, since there's also straight line exit from the
previous<br>
>> maneuver and entry to the following.<br>
>><br>
>> Sorry.<br>
>><br>
>> Has to be start of rolling and end of rolling for centering reference
and<br>
>> assumed same length straight at each end. (which can be just one
fuselage<br>
>> length... maybe less since the length is not defined...)<br>
>><br>
>> If you don't assume same length straight lines... you can't judge
center <br>
>> on<br>
>> anything.... even a simple loop.<br>
>><br>
>> You can purposely shoot for roll rates that center the
inverted.... but <br>
>> as<br>
>> noted... a slow roll probably SHOULD be slower roll rate than the rate
for<br>
>> the 2/2. which would be likely put put you somewhere in the slow
roll<br>
>> portion at center.<br>
>><br>
>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>> From: "Derek Koopowitz" <derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><br>
>> To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:10 PM<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> The entire maneuver is judged including the straight lines.
Each <br>
>>> maneuver<br>
>>> as defined in our rules starts and ends with a straight line.<br>
>>><br>
>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
Earl Haury<br>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:55 PM<br>
>>> To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
>>><br>
>>> Actually, while the straight line "before" and
"after" the maneuver is<br>
>>> required the names (of the lines) themselves define that they are
not<br>
>>> "included" in the maneuver. Rolls start when the
aircraft begins to roll<br>
>>> (for the first element) and end when it stops rolling (the final <br>
>>> element).<br>
>>><br>
>>> Earl<br>
>>><br>
>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>
>>> From: "Derek Koopowitz" <derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><br>
>>> To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:19 PM<br>
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>> Not necessarily - since the maneuver is made up of two
different rolling<br>
>>>> elements the center of the maneuver is the center of the two
components<br>
>>>> including the straight line before and after the
maneuver. Since the <br>
>>>> 2/2<br>
>>>> point roll will be done a lot faster than the slow roll the
maneuver <br>
>>>> will<br>
>>>> start early and the 2 point roll will finish long before
center prior to<br>
>>>> the<br>
>>>> slow roll beginning. What the pilot/judge needs to do is
visualize <br>
>>>> where<br>
>>>> the maneuver starts including the straight flight portion and
where it<br>
>>>> will<br>
>>>> end after the slow roll including the straight flight portion
and<br>
>>>> position<br>
>>>> the maneuver accordingly.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of<br>
>>>> jivey61@bellsouth.net<br>
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 5:18 PM<br>
>>>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I am directing this to Don Ramsey.<br>
>>>> Where is the center of the 2/2pt roll,slow roll opposite. It
seems it<br>
>>>> would<br>
>>>> be between the 2/2pt and the slow roll opposite.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> TIA<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -- <br>
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>>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.10/418 - Release Date: <br>
>>> 8/14/2006<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>><br>
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>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -- <br>
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>><br>
>> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></p>
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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
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