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<DIV><SPAN class=699273515-15082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
agree with both Matt and Arch,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=699273515-15082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>and
when teaching judging seminars, I often tell them to look for the "click"
of the plane establishing the line.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=699273515-15082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>That
is actually what the pilot is suppoosed to be demonstrating: that a line has
been established,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=699273515-15082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>and it
certainly takes all of the old-school 50 feet to do so.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=699273515-15082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Any
excess length beyond that necessary to demonstrate the "click"
is flown between maneuvers.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=699273515-15082006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Archie
Stafford<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:35 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters...
clarify on Item20<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think this is
another situation of over analyzing. Maneuver starts when the first roll
is initiated and stops when it is finished. There has to be a straight
line between maneuvers, but the actual maneuver itself starts with the
roll. In the current Masters sequence, the slow roll follows the figure
9, therefore the straight line is rather short if you do a nice long slow
roll. However, most Masters pilots are doing the Humpty bump that
follows by pushing the box, pulling up, half roll then pushing over the top
back into the box. The line before the slow roll is MUCH shorter than
the line afterwards, however the center of the maneuver is the inverted point
of the slow roll. The easy way to do this is judge the center of the
maneuver from the time the first roll starts til the last one finishes, then
ensure there is a straight line before and after. There is no judge out
there who can determine if the straight line was 10 meters or 15 meters…our
eyes just aren’t that good. But our eyes can see a straight line.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Arch<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Don Ramsey<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:11
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Derek,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You have the wording on your side in one area. I
agree about the 15 meters being the accepted standard. Consider this
intrepretation, for the maneuver there must be a definite entry/exit line and
for centering there must be a line but let it approach 0 meters length.
It seems if there is a line on both ends its length makes no
difference for centering
purposes. </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In your
interpretation:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">- if a entry/exit line is not present on a centered
maneuver it must be downgraded for centering.
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">- in the case of no entry line the maneuver is
downgraded twice for the same error. Once for centering and 2 points for
no entry line. I don't think that is
correct.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">- no exit line would be downgraded for
centering unless the maneuver is offset in the maneuvering portion. In
this case I don't think the judge would ever get it
correct.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">- this really seems to open a can of worms that
would cause many inconsistencies between
judges.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">dr</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=derekkoopowitz@gmail.com href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">Derek
Koopowitz</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, August 15, 2006 8:39 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">True.... the rules
never state that entry and exit lines should be a minimum of 15 meters -
that is why I stated "generally accepted" since everywhere else it states
that a 15 meter line should be present before the 1st maneuver and so on...
to me a 15 meter line is nothing (extremely short) when a plane is
flying at 60 mph (or faster) - but we need to include a defined
length as part of each maneuver - and they should be equal lengths in order
for the maneuver to be deemed "symmetrical".</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Don Ramsey<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:51
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">First, to be clear on the Masters 2/2 Slow Roll
Opposite. Center is defined only after the maneuver ends. Where did it
start, where did it end and only then, was the entire maneuver
centered?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I'm currently gathering information for the next
year's judging materials so this discussion is great. Interesting
points on entry and exit lines. The rules are not clear.
Consider this, the box entry must be called 15 meters before the first
maneuver begins. Each maneuver begins and ends with a straight
line. Here's the quotes from the rules: </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><STRONG><B><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic">Calling of box entry must be
done so there is a minimum of a 15 meter straight line before the first
maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will begin then. (As the lines into and
out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and are always judged). Calling of
exiting the box must be done after a minimum of a 15 meter straight
line after the maneuver. Judging will cease at that
point.</SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Let's take that a little further. It seems to
say, since a line is part of the first maneuver in a sequence then calling
the box entry should be done 30 meters before maneuvering starts. I
don't think that was the intent of the
rule.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">and more on
lines:</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><STRONG><B><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic">Lines—All aerobatic maneuvers
are started and ended by a horizontal line. When no line is flown between
two (2) scored maneuvers, the upcoming maneuver should be downgraded by two
(2) points. </SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><B><I><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic"><BR><STRONG><B><FONT
face="Times New Roman">
All lines within a maneuver have a beginning and end which define their
length. The length of a line should only be graded when a maneuver contains
several lines with a given relationship, as in a square
loop.</FONT></B></STRONG></SPAN></FONT></I></B><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR>I don't think entry/exit lines have a beginning
and end which define their lengths and if they don't they should not be used
for centering determination. Since the entry and exit lines to a
maneuver can and are often different lengths that would imply those centered
maneuvers where they are different should be downgraded. A good
example would be a turnaround of a half cuban eight, a centered maneuver
then a stall turn for the other turnaround. Should the centered
maneuver be downgraded in this case since the entry and exit lines are of
different lengths? Also, the maneuver descriptions never say, "Model
draws a horizontal line, (remainder of
description) ...." The rules never say the entry and exit
lines must be 15 meters only that they must be there. The
implication is, entry/exit lines should not be used in determining
centering.<BR><BR>Must there be 30 meters between maneuvers? I
disagree with Derek here. Here are the rules on lines.
<BR><BR><STRONG><B><I><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic">"(As the lines into and out of maneuvers are part
of the maneuver and are always
judged)." </SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic"><BR><STRONG><B><FONT
face="Times New Roman">
</FONT></B></STRONG></SPAN></I></B></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">then later</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><EM><B><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"The judge should form an image
of the forthcoming maneuver based on using the straight and level entry
identified in section D, Judging Individual Maneuvers, as a reference. The
absence of a definite entry into a maneuver increases the difficulty of
judging its precision and competitors will recognize this as justification
for downgrading. The straight and level exit from a maneuver is one of the
more valuable portions of a maneuver in evaluating how well the intended
course of the maneuver was followed. Therefore, the absence of a well
defined straight and level exit should also result in downgrading. In all
cases, straight and level flight means flight parallel to the flightline, at
a constant altitude, and with wings
level."</SPAN></FONT></I></B></EM><B><I><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-STYLE: italic"><BR><EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman"> </FONT></I></EM></SPAN></FONT></I></B><BR><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Section D does not include any
reference to entry/exit lines. It appears there only need be a
definite or well defined line into and out of maneuvers. That length
is not specified. There is also nothing to preclude the exit line from
one maneuver being the entry line into the next. Again, the maneuver
descriptions do not include the entry/exit lines in their
text.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This needs to be corrected in the next rule
cycle.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sorry for the
rambling,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Don</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT>----- Original Message -----
<BR>From: "Derek Koopowitz" <derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>To: "'NSRCA
Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Tuesday,
August 15, 2006 1:04 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters...
clarify on Item20<BR><BR><BR>> Straight from the rule book on all
counts. The 15 meter rule for straight<BR>> line applies to
entering and leaving the box as well. Refer to page 72. <BR>>
<BR>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/compreg.asp<BR>> <BR>> Calling
of box entry must be done so there is a minimum of a 15 meter<BR>>
straight line before the first maneuver. Judging of the maneuver will
begin<BR>> then. (As the lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the
maneuver and<BR>> are always judged). Calling of exiting the box
must be done after a minimum<BR>> of a 15 meter straight line after the
maneuver. Judging will cease at that<BR>> point.<BR>> <BR>> If
there isn't a defined straight line between maneuvers then the
upcoming<BR>> maneuver is downgraded 2 points (see my comment
below). The length of that<BR>> line should be 30+ meters in order
to receive no downgrade.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Huber<BR>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:53 PM<BR>> To: NSRCA
Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify
on Item20<BR>> <BR>> you didn't read the whole thing I posted....
Looks like you responded to the<BR>> part before "sorry"<BR>> <BR>>
You have a 15 meter straight line definition... I'm not sure if thats
from<BR>> the rulebook or not... That would be appx 7 fuselage
lengths.<BR>> <BR>> But.... does that just apply to the enter and
leave box? or does there have<BR>> to be a 30 meter (or 2 X 15
meter segments with the un-judged corrections<BR>> between them...
there's not much room for track corrections this way) <BR>> straight line
between consecutive maneuvers? Or is the way I have thought
<BR>> it was correct... no defined straight line lenght between
maneuvers, just a<BR>> definite straight line established?<BR>>
<BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: "Derek Koopowitz"
<derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> Sent: Monday, August 14,
2006 11:24 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters...
clarify on Item20<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>>
Fred,<BR>>><BR>>> If what you say is the case then every
maneuver would be impossible to <BR>>> judge<BR>>> and that is
why we have the the following:<BR>>><BR>>> Page
72:<BR>>><BR>>> Calling of box entry must be done so there is a
minimum of a 15 meter<BR>>> straight line before the first maneuver.
Judging of the maneuver will <BR>>> begin<BR>>> then. (As the
lines into and out of maneuvers are part of the maneuver and<BR>>> are
always judged). Calling of exiting the box must be done after a <BR>>>
minimum<BR>>> of a 15 meter straight line after the
maneuver.<BR>>><BR>>> Page 77:<BR>>><BR>>> .
Lines-All aerobatic maneuvers are started and ended by a horizontal
<BR>>> line.<BR>>> When no line is flown<BR>>> between two
(2) scored maneuvers, the upcoming maneuver should be <BR>>>
downgraded<BR>>> by two (2)
points.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> The generally accepted length of
that line is 15 meters.<BR>>><BR>>> So add 15 meters to the
beginning of, and end of, each maneuver and you <BR>>> can<BR>>>
figure out the center for those maneuvers that have different
rolling<BR>>> elements such as 2/2 point roll followed by an opposite
slow roll.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> ---Original
Message-----<BR>>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Huber<BR>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 8:57 PM<BR>>> To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
2007 Masters... clarify on Item20<BR>>><BR>>> OK.. then its
impossible to downgrade THIS maneuver for centering if the<BR>>>
straight lines are part of it.... Because there is no definite
attitude <BR>>> of<BR>>> the model that can be associated with
center, and the line start and end<BR>>> can't be defined, since
there's also straight line exit from the previous<BR>>> maneuver and
entry to the following.<BR>>><BR>>>
Sorry.<BR>>><BR>>> Has to be start of rolling and end of rolling
for centering reference and<BR>>> assumed same length straight at each
end. (which can be just one fuselage<BR>>> length... maybe less since
the length is not defined...)<BR>>><BR>>> If you don't assume
same length straight lines... you can't judge center <BR>>>
on<BR>>> anything.... even a simple loop.<BR>>><BR>>> You
can purposely shoot for roll rates that center the inverted.... but
<BR>>> as<BR>>> noted... a slow roll probably SHOULD be slower
roll rate than the rate for<BR>>> the 2/2. which would be likely
put put you somewhere in the slow roll<BR>>> portion at
center.<BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>>>
From: "Derek Koopowitz" <derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>>> To:
"'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:10 PM<BR>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>> The entire maneuver is judged
including the straight lines. Each <BR>>>>
maneuver<BR>>>> as defined in our rules starts and ends with a
straight line.<BR>>>><BR>>>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>>>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Earl
Haury<BR>>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:55 PM<BR>>>>
To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007
Masters... clarify on Item20<BR>>>><BR>>>> Actually, while
the straight line "before" and "after" the maneuver is<BR>>>>
required the names (of the lines) themselves define that they are
not<BR>>>> "included" in the maneuver. Rolls start when the
aircraft begins to roll<BR>>>> (for the first element) and end when
it stops rolling (the final <BR>>>>
element).<BR>>>><BR>>>>
Earl<BR>>>><BR>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>> From: "Derek Koopowitz"
<derekkoopowitz@gmail.com><BR>>>> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>> Sent: Monday,
August 14, 2006 9:19 PM<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2007
Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>> Not necessarily -
since the maneuver is made up of two different rolling<BR>>>>>
elements the center of the maneuver is the center of the two
components<BR>>>>> including the straight line before and after
the maneuver. Since the <BR>>>>> 2/2<BR>>>>>
point roll will be done a lot faster than the slow roll the maneuver
<BR>>>>> will<BR>>>>> start early and the 2 point
roll will finish long before center prior to<BR>>>>>
the<BR>>>>> slow roll beginning. What the pilot/judge
needs to do is visualize <BR>>>>> where<BR>>>>> the
maneuver starts including the straight flight portion and where
it<BR>>>>> will<BR>>>>> end after the slow roll
including the straight flight portion and<BR>>>>>
position<BR>>>>> the maneuver
accordingly.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>>>>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf
Of<BR>>>>> jivey61@bellsouth.net<BR>>>>> Sent:
Monday, August 14, 2006 5:18 PM<BR>>>>> To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>> Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] 2007 Masters... clarify on
Item20<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> I am directing this to Don
Ramsey.<BR>>>>> Where is the center of the 2/2pt roll,slow roll
opposite. It seems it<BR>>>>> would<BR>>>>> be
between the 2/2pt and the slow roll
opposite.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
TIA<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>
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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>><BR>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>
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