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<DIV>John,</DIV>
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<DIV>Probably, you need to consdider a differernt prop for that windy conditions. I learned this from Joe D. that he flies in windy conditions at Pawee Rock, Kansas. I think the minimum wind speed there is probably 25-30 mph. I would suggest that you try a faster prop. Comments? It works for me. </DIV>
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<DIV>What prop/plane/engine combination you have?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
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<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "John Konneker" <jlkonn@hotmail.com> <BR><BR>> Dean, Adam and all, <BR>> Thanks for the great replies. <BR>> Dean, I am beginning to visualize what you meant by "the plane of the plane <BR>> staying square to the plane of the flightline"...I think! <BR>> I can see that one attempt to correct the problem only results in another. <BR>> To be specific flying Sportsman. Takeoff direction from left to right. I <BR>> have just completed my 1/2 Reverse Cuban Eight and I am making a ground <BR>> track correction on the Straight Flight Back with rudder. This yaws the <BR>> nose into the crosswind blowing in my face. I am approaching the downwind <BR>> end of the box and need to begin my pull-up in to the looping portion of my <BR>> Cuban Eight. <BR>> If I do nothing else, starting wings level, as I loop ove
r the top the nose <BR>> is now pointing more toward me WITH the crosswind. I can see I am really <BR>> beginning to suck dishwater now! I have a big heading error to correct and <BR>> it won't be very pretty. I am visualizing the problem, and experienced it <BR>> over and over yesterday but I haven't visualized the solution. <BR>> Like I said...I could have just sat down on the edge of the runway and <BR>> cried! <BR>> JLK <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> >From: "Dean Pappas" <D.PAPPAS@KODEOS.COM><BR>> >Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction <BR>> >Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:07:23 -0400 <BR>> > <BR>> >Hi John, <BR>> >I have long struggled to find a good way to explain this, in print. <BR>> >If, rather than wings level, you talk about "the plane of the plane staying <BR>>
>square to the plane of the flightline", it may help. Maybe it won't! <BR>> >A 3-D picture would be worth a thousand words. <BR>> > <BR>> >Even from crabbed level flight, or a properly crabbed vertical, any time <BR>> >the elevator is used, the existing crab will turn into unwanted <BR>> >wings-not-square <BR>> >and the direction of the resulting turn will always be downwind! Adam's <BR>> >suggestion is a good one: go handfly it a zillion times. <BR>> >Most importantly, flying around holding bootloads of rudder to fly in a <BR>> >crosswind will consume your power and airspeed. <BR>> >Airspeed (or at least having it available on demand) is your friend in a <BR>> >crosswind and the best way to maintain it is to fly the airplane <BR>> >uncross-controlled as much as possible. Eventually, you will use very very <BR>> >small aileron inputs for as much possible, and only use the rudder, <BR>> >as Adam s
ays, for fixing the weathervaning that results from airspeed <BR>> >changes, such as slowing down just before stall turns and spin entries or <BR>> >speeding up as the plane descends. These are almost always judicious <BR>> >downwind rudder corrections. <BR>> >The aileron inputs will not be corrections, because they will actually have <BR>> >to happen as the looping action begins. After the fact is too late, and <BR>> >then all you have left is rudder, or dropping a wing panel. Of course, <BR>> >dropping a wing panel at 1G does very little compared to when you are <BR>> >puilling G's. <BR>> > <BR>> >Hopefully, we will approach this problem from several different angles and <BR>> >ways of explanatioin, and you will triangulate it before long! <BR>> >Then the other aspect of the art that Adam mentioned will start to kick in. <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >Dean Pappas <BR>> >Sr. Design Engineer <BR
>> >Kodeos Communications <BR>> >111 Corporate Blvd. <BR>> >South Plainfield, N.J. 07080 <BR>> >(908) 222-7817 phone <BR>> >(908) 222-2392 fax <BR>> >d.pappas@kodeos.com <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >-----Original Message----- <BR>> >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jim <BR>> >Woodward <BR>> >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:41 AM <BR>> >To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <BR>> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >Well said Adam! The only way for the wings to be continuously "level" <BR>> >during any radius or loop in a bad cross wind is by rolling the plane. <BR>> >Thus, you must continuously roll the plane just to maintain the look of <BR>> >wings level through the entire maneuver set. Despite the requirement for <BR>> >wind correction to be only done
in the yaw axis, the ailerons are the most <BR>> >important control surface on the plane and are not "set and forget" <BR>> >surfaces. If you want to reduce your rudder work 50%, continuously focus <BR>> >on <BR>> >"wings" level. When the wings are level, the nose will always "seek" to go <BR>> >into the wind. If the wings are not level, you flash more surface area to <BR>> >the wind and will be blown "with" the direction of the wind. If you are <BR>> >spot on wings-wise, you will actually find a tendancy to go into the wind <BR>> >in <BR>> >all but the stalled maneuvers and if at too low a speed in general. (stall <BR>> >turns, spins) <BR>> > <BR>> >Thanks, <BR>> >Jim W. <BR>> > <BR>> >-----Original Message----- <BR>> >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Adam Glatt <BR>> >Sent: Monday, August 1
4, 2006 10:15 AM <BR>> >To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Wind correction <BR>> > <BR>> >Hi John. Welcome to the game of wind correction. There's flying <BR>> >pattern, and then there's flying pattern in the wind. The difference is <BR>> >that in the wind you have to mentally trace the change in position of <BR>> >the airplane to determine the correct pitch and yaw to fly at. In calm <BR>> >you simply point the plane where you want to go. <BR>> > <BR>> >Perfect wind correction in pattern requires the wings be held level with <BR>> >the horizon for all normal flight, and during rolls the points are still <BR>> >perfect 45 or 90 degree banks from level with horizon. Wind correction <BR>> >is completely in the yaw and pitch. In practice, this results in <BR>> >techniques like always-present yaw angle in a crosswind; slight pitch <BR>> >angles in any and all uplines, 45
s, and loops in the presence of a down <BR>> >the runway wind. <BR>> > <BR>> >There are more techniques that you will need to be perfect at it. The <BR>> >more advanced ones include higher throttle while flying upwind and lower <BR>> >while flying downwind, varying elevator position throughout any and all <BR>> >looping segments in a down the runway wind to achieve a truly round loop <BR>> >(if, during the loop, you go from straight up to upwind you will need to <BR>> >decrease your elevator input, as the plane will have a high airspeed by <BR>> >low ground speed; if, during the loop, you go from straight up to <BR>> >downwind you will need to increase your elevator input), and the <BR>> >trickiest of all, aileron correction during a yaw'd pitch change (i.e. <BR>> >every time you use elevator in a crosswind). <BR>> > <BR>> >That last one is often completely overlooked until someone tells you <BR>>
; >about it. The best way to realize this correction is needed is with a <BR>> >stick plane or hand plane. Fly a level horizontal at a huge yaw angle to <BR>> >compensate for a huge crosswind. So, fly straight but have your plane <BR>> >yaw'd 45 degrees. Now pull elevator. Remeber, the elevator raises the <BR>> >noise relative to the tail. As the nose lifts and eventually gets to a <BR>> >vertical, and if you've been honest with yourself, the ailerons are now <BR>> >banked. The only solution to this is aileron input during the elevator <BR>> >input. <BR>> > <BR>> >Have fun in the wind. <BR>> > <BR>> >-Adam <BR>> > <BR>> >John Konneker wrote: <BR>> > > I'm new at this. <BR>> > > OK, not really but it's been over 20 years. <BR>> > > Yesterday while practicing in enough crosswind (blowing in) to have a <BR>> > > noticeable effect I was having difficulty keeping the plan
e form coming <BR>> >in <BR>> > <BR>> > > too close. <BR>> > > I am confused about what the acceptable techniques are to maintain <BR>> >position <BR>> > > and ground track. <BR>> > > Is it acceptable to fly a maneuver with less than wings level to <BR>> >counteract <BR>> > > the crosswind? This has the effect of corkscrewing the loops, etc. <BR>> > > In the stall turns while going up trying to hold the plane into the wind <BR>> >it <BR>> > > will begin to yaw early giving the impression that the turn is being <BR>> >"lead" <BR>> > > and is starting too early. <BR>> > > Is this acceptable. <BR>> > > Like I said, I'm confused as to what is wind correction and what starts <BR>> >the <BR>> > > "1 point per 15 degree" deductions. <BR>> > > Thanks! <BR>> > > JLK <BR>> > > <BR>> > > _______________________________
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