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<DIV>Hi Richard,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I said that wrong. It was really a lot more than 90 degrees. The plane stop almost inverted. Therefore, the over rotation was close to 180 degrees. You have a good point. That is reason I always said the it is pilot error unless I can find the reason of the mechanical failure. Let me explain a little more. I snapped to the right because we had 90 degree cross wind. I was flying the manuever left to right and the wing was blowing out. Probably 10-12 mph. Therefore, I was snapping into the wind for obvious reasons. When I noticed that ailerons were not responsive I did apply down elevator (releasing the aileron first). The speed was high because I did a large Inmelman turn so I don't see that the plane was in stalled condition. However, I could be wrong. Charlie was calling for me I he could give us his opinion in regard the stall condition. If I did snap awa
y from the wind there could have been more chances of stalling. I use low rates. Around 10 degrees in elevator, 12 degrees ailerons.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I really new that there was something wrong very early because I couldn't stop the snap. It was almost instant feeling that I didn't have control after I did the snap.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Richard Strickland" <richard.s@allied-callaway.com> <BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">I suppose that if the airplane were over rotated by 90 degrees and at least still in a semi-stalled condition in knife-edge, the controls would potentially be slow to respond.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In a right hand snap, the right wing would be stalled and if it were pointed toward the ground—still stalled--and the fuse was washing out the left—upper—un-stalled--panel, then that would account for the non-responsiveness of the ailerons.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Aircraft can still be stalled at high speeds and depending on the timing and amount of input—maybe exaggerated with high rates with big expo, a secondary stall/spin can take place making you wonder ‘how did THAT happen?!’.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>
Not all that unlikely a circumstance with as slippery as these critters are….<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And you might have just had some really lousy luck with wind shear at that precise moment.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I am a Charter Member of SAD.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">RS<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>vicenterc@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, August 06, 2006 6:52 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Yes, yesterday afternoon I lost my Abbra. I was doing the 45 degree down with snap. After the snap, I could not control the plane. This is my recollection of events:</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">1. I over rotated the snap for a kittle more than 90 degrees. It was clear to me at that early stage that something was going wrong. I snapped to the right. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">2. My friend Charlie was calling for me. He also noticed and said something to put it back in position. I told him that the plane was not responding. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">3. First reaction was to give full left to get it back upright. The ailerons did not respond. When I realized that, I tried to take it out of the dive by given down elevator since was pracically in inverted position. It did not respond. It that aptitude everything goes very fast. Finally, I tried to give up elevator but was already too late. I am aware that I applied these control input. <SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It was clear to me that there was no reaction. <SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I was able to realize that I didn't have control and I could not avoid the crash. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><
o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">4. I did not have time to do anything with rudder and throttle. Throttle was at idle. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">5. When we checked the crash site. One aileron servo was buzzing hard. I disconnected the servo. Therefore, my first impression that the battery flew off and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was not valid.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">6. I took the plane home as it came from the crash.<SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I disconnected only the ailerons servos. <SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I checked the radio and everything is working fine. Only two servos are not working. The throttle servo that was practically destroyed in the crash and one aileron servo that the gears were stripped.<SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that this was caused by the force of the impact. <SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There was not evidence of flutter in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage after coming out of the snap.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR:
black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">7.<SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that the plane was well over stall speed after the snap. <SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Therefore, the plane was not in stalled condition.<SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, I could be wrong.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">7. I use JR all around with digital servos. PCM receiver with fail safe programmed to cut engine and leave the servos in the last commanded position. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery (4 cells AA Sanyo). I checked the battery voltage and was at 5.15 volts after the crash. Discharged the battery and gave 1540 mah using 250mah rate. I am planning to cycle the battery with higher loads. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">9. It was very hot day. The plane was sitting in the sun and it was second fly of the day around 2:00 PM. Easily was close to 100 oF. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">At this point, I have to admit that has to be pilot error since I have not been able to find a definitive cause of the crash. It is clear that the snap initiated some kind of failure. Other pilots think that the NiMh battery gave up at high currents during the snap and caused the crash. I have been flying this type of battery for two years now with no problems. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I am informing this to the group since I would like to have your feedback. <SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If someone had a similar problem and found the cause of the crash, please let me know. I am going back to my backup plane (the old hydeout). I have a brand new Abbra so need to put it together. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Thanks and have a nice day,</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Vicente Bortone</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>