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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vince,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Am I to understand that the battery was loose in
the plane? If so, do you know if this occurred due to impact or if this occurred
during the snap?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 07, 2006 9:03
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost
Abbra</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Richard,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I said that wrong. It was really a lot more than 90 degrees.
The plane stop almost inverted. Therefore, the over rotation was close
to 180 degrees. You have a good point. That is reason I always
said the it is pilot error unless I can find the reason of the mechanical
failure. Let me explain a little more. I snapped to the right
because we had 90 degree cross wind. I was flying the manuever left to
right and the wing was blowing out. Probably 10-12 mph.
Therefore, I was snapping into the wind for obvious reasons.
When I noticed that ailerons were not responsive I did apply down
elevator (releasing the aileron first). The speed was high because I did
a large Inmelman turn so I don't see that the plane was in stalled
condition. However, I could be wrong. Charlie was calling for me I
he could give us his opinion in regard the stall condition. If I
did s! nap awa y from the wind there could have been
more chances of stalling. I use low
rates. Around 10 degrees in elevator, 12 degrees ailerons.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I really new that there was something wrong very early because I couldn't
stop the snap. It was almost instant feeling that I didn't have control
after I did the snap.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Richard Strickland"
<richard.s@allied-callaway.com> <BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">I
suppose that if the airplane were over rotated by 90 degrees and at least
still in a semi-stalled condition in knife-edge, the controls would
potentially be slow to respond.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>In a right hand snap, the right wing would be stalled and if it were
pointed toward the ground—still stalled--and the fuse was washing out the
left—upper—un-stalled--panel, then that would account for the
non-responsiveness of the ailerons.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Aircraft can still be stalled at high speeds and depending on the
timing and amount of input—maybe exaggerated with high rates with big expo,
a secondary stall/spin can take place making you wonder ‘how did THAT
happen?!’.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> ! </SPAN>Not all that
unlikely a circumstance with as slippery as these critters are….<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And you might have just had some
really lousy luck with wind shear at that precise moment.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I am a Charter Member of
SAD.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">RS<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>vicenterc@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, August 06, 2006 6:52
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [NSRCA-discussion] Lost
Abbra</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Yes, yesterday afternoon I
lost my Abbra. I was doing the 45 degree down with snap.
After the snap, I could not control the plane. This is my recollection
of events:</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">1. I over
rotated the snap for a kittle more than 90 degrees. It was clear
to me at that early stage that something was going wrong. I snapped to
the right. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">2. My friend
Charlie was calling for me. He also noticed and said something to
put it back in position. I told him that the plane was not
responding. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">3. First
reaction was to give full left to get it back upright. The ailerons
did not respond. When I realized that, I tried to take it out of the
dive by given down elevator since was pracically in inverted position.
It did not respond. It that aptitude everything goes very fast.
Finally, I tried to give up elevator but was already too late. I am
aware that I applied these control input. <SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It was clear to me that
there was no reaction. <SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I was able to
realize that I didn't have control and I could not avoid the crash.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: window">< o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">4. I did not
have time to do anything with rudder and throttle. Throttle was at
idle. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">5. When we
checked the crash site. One aileron servo was buzzing hard. I
disconnected the servo. Therefore, my first impression that the
battery flew off and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was not
valid.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">6. I took the
plane home as it came from the crash.<SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I disconnected
only the ailerons servos. <SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I checked the radio
and everything is working fine. Only two servos are not working.
The throttle servo that was practically destroyed in the crash and one
aileron servo that the gears were stripped.<SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that this was
caused by the force of the impact. <SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There was not evidence of
flutter in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage after coming
out of the snap.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN windowtext?
mso-color-alt: black; ?COLOR:><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">7.<SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that the plane
was well over stall speed after the snap. <SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Therefore, the plane was not
in stalled condition.<SPAN DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>However, I could be wrong.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">7. I use
JR all around with digital servos. PCM receiver with fail safe
programmed to cut engine and leave the servos in the last commanded
position. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">8. I use 2300
mah NiMh battery (4 cells AA Sanyo). I checked the battery voltage and
was at 5.15 volts after the crash. Discharged the battery and gave
1540 mah using 250mah rate. I am planning to cycle the battery with
higher loads. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">9. It was
very hot day. The plane was sitting in the sun and it was second fly
of the day around 2:00 PM. Easily was close to 100 oF.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">At this
point, I have to admit that has to be pilot error since I have not been able
to find a definitive cause of the crash. It is clear that the snap
initiated some kind of failure. Other pilots think that the NiMh
battery gave up at high currents during the snap and caused the crash.
I have been flying this type of battery for two years now with no
problems. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I am
informing this to the group since I would like to have your feedback. <SPAN
DEFANGED_STYLE="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If someone had a similar
problem and found the cause of the crash, please let me know. I am
going back to my backup plane (the old hydeout). I have a brand new
Abbra so need to put it together. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Thanks and
have a nice day,</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
DEFANGED_STYLE="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Vicente
Bortone</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
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