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<DIV>Pat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>That has been the only time I got a 10.......</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>VB</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Pat Hewitt" <phewitt@farmersagent.com> <BR><BR>> I am sure we had a battery problem BUT it was not to loss of power BUT I think <BR>> it departed from its hold down and pulled the switch wire lose. Remember you <BR>> questioned your material a couple weeks ago and thought of chainging how you <BR>> had it. THE ONE THING WE KNOW IS WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE CAUSE. You have a good <BR>> point regarding the two new pilots we had at the fied we need to find them and <BR>> check them out. <BR>> <BR>> Pat Hewitt <BR>> <BR>> PS I did give you a 10 on the down line. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------ Original Message ------ <BR>> Received: 11:11 AM CDT, 08/07/2006 <BR>> From: "Keith Black" <TKEITHB@COMCAST.NET><BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dis
cussion] Lost Abbra <BR>> <BR>> I've been reading this thread and I serously doubt the NiMH batteries had <BR>> anything to do with the crash. NiMH batteries aren't new on the market for <BR>> goodness sakes and they've been working very very well on probably billions of <BR>> flights. Sure we have digital servos, but in truth our loads aren't really <BR>> very high and certinally not for and extended draw. <BR>> <BR>> I would think if low voltage had caused the loss of control then once the snap <BR>> stopped, even though you had little time before hitting the ground, you still <BR>> would have had enough time for the RX to come back to life. Remember, the <BR>> battery did discharge 1540 mah on the ground. <BR>> <BR>> As to the servo that was locked at full throw, if this had occurred in the air <BR>> the plane would have been spiraling on it's way down and your other surfaces <BR>> would have still worked. Therefore, you can rule out
the jammed servo, that <BR>> most certinally happened upon impact. <BR>> <BR>> As to the IMAC guys having low impedance problems I can buy this, but keep in <BR>> mind these guys have two to three servos on each surface, their planes weigh <BR>> 40 lbs, and they slam the controls like crazy doing blenders and such. The <BR>> usage by pattern planes isn't even in the same galaxy. <BR>> <BR>> Most likely this was a simple case of lock-out due to reception. There could <BR>> be some other factor, but I would hate to see anyone go back to NiCADs due to <BR>> this incident. <BR>> <BR>> Keith Black <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List ; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 7:44 AM <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Thanks Chris, <BR>> <BR>> You are right. The event was so fast. Going down hill at 45 degrees didn't
<BR>> give me too much time. <BR>> <BR>> I went to NiMh two years ago. Looks like I am going to go back to NiCads. <BR>> Several fellow pilots are telling me about the voltage drop problem of the <BR>> NiMh. Probably, the battery was not the cause of the crash but I think I am <BR>> going to feel more confident going back to NiCads. I went to NiMh because <BR>> they are lighter for a given capacity. I agree that there has been a lot of <BR>> comments in regard the low impedance. However, I really don't want to use <BR>> NiMh after having this problem. <BR>> <BR>> I am planing to send the radio to JR for a complete check out. <BR>> <BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone <BR>> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> From: "White, Chris" <CHRIS@SSD.FSI.COM><BR>> <BR>> Hi Vince, very sorry to hear about your Abbra loss...not much time to <BR>> recover or evaluate the problem considering where it happened. For what its <BR>>
worth, I've heard of airplane losses due to over-demand voltage during snaps . <BR>> I also hear many of the giant scale guys are using "low impedance" nimh <BR>> batteries when using nimh because of servo over-demand during certain <BR>> maneuvers such as snaps. After hearing the low-impedance story I went to <BR>> Hangtime Hobbies and am now flying their KAM 1800 6v low impedance packs. <BR>> Their site is worth a visit just for the read. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> www.hangtimes.com/nobsbatteries.html <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I hope you find closure on the cause. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Chris White <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>> <BR>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of <BR>> vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> Sent:
Monday, August 07, 2006 5:49 AM <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ron, <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I checked all servos but throttle and one aileron servo. All are working <BR>> on the bench fine. One of the aileron servos gears is locked in maximum <BR>> travel position and I am assuming that was caused in the crash. However, I <BR>> could be wrong. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> From: Ron Van Putte <VANPUTTE@COX.NET><BR>> <BR>> On Aug 6, 2006, at 9:50 PM, vicenterc@comcast.net wrote: <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> The battery was a little over a year old. I cycled the battery after the <BR>> crash and got around 1540 mah. It was freshly charged and I was in the seco
nd <BR>> fly. I use around 200 mah per fly so the battery was close to 2000 mah. I <BR>> always charge at C/10 and never fast charged. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I am discharging the battery now at 500 mah. I discharged the first time <BR>> at 250 mah. I will keep increasing the discharge rate to check if I find <BR>> something wrong. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I am willing to bet that you will find a bad servo. Maybe Jim Oddino or <BR>> one of the other radio wizards can explain, but a single servo can cause the <BR>> whole system to crash. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Ron <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> From: "Scott Anderson" <SCOTT@RCFOAMY.COM><BR>> <BR>> How old are the NiMh batteries... People have found the have a steep <BR>> drop off when going bad.. <BR>> <BR>> scott <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> <BR>> From: vic
enterc@comcast.net <BR>> <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List ; nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> <BR>> Cc: Fred Huber <BR>> <BR>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:19 PM <BR>> <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Fred, <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Usually I called pilot (and/or mechanic) error until I find the <BR>> cause of the crash. I haven't been in this position in a very long time. I <BR>> tend to agree with you since it was clear that I didn't have control. However, <BR>> the radio is working even after such a crash. There was a comment at the field <BR>> that NiMh batteries can cause this problem. I will check the battery as much <BR>> as possible (cycle increasing the current draws) but not sure if the test will <BR>> be valid. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --------------
Original message -------------- <BR>> From: "Fred Huber" <FHHUBER@CLEARWIRE.COM><BR>> <BR>> In that case... it may have gone to lock out just as it was <BR>> finishing the snap... rather than your control input to get out of the <BR>> rotation, the surfaces go to neutral, it over-rotates and then plays lawn <BR>> dart. <BR>> <BR>> No response at all its very easy to thing failsafe lockout. Since <BR>> the engine was already at the failsafe setting, you don't have that indicator <BR>> to confirm (or refute) the lockout. <BR>> <BR>> I wouldn't call it pilot error when the control input attempts you <BR>> made simply had no effect... <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> <BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> <BR>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> <BR>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:15 PM <BR>> <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I am wrong below
in regard the fail safe in regard the fail <BR>> safe. The fail safe is programmed to cut the engine and set the control <BR>> surfaces at neutral. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> <BR>> Yes, yesterday afternoon I lost my Abbra. I was doing the 45 <BR>> degree down with snap. After the snap, I could not control the plane. This is <BR>> my recollection of events: <BR>> <BR>> 1. I over rotated the snap for a kittle more than 90 degrees. <BR>> It was clear to me at that early stage that something was going wrong. I <BR>> snapped to the right. <BR>> <BR>> 2. My friend Charlie was calling for me. He also noticed and <BR>> said something to put it back in position. I told him that the plane was not <BR>> responding. <BR>> <BR>> 3. First reaction was to give full left to get it back <BR>>
upright. The ailerons did not respond. When I realized that, I tried to take <BR>> it out of the dive by given down elevator since was pracically in inverted <BR>> position. It did not respond. It that aptitude everything goes very fast. <BR>> Finally, I tried to give up elevator but was already too late. I am aware that <BR>> I applied these control input. It was clear to me that there was no reaction. <BR>> I was able to realize that I didn't have control and I could not avoid the <BR>> crash. <BR>> <BR>> 4. I did not have time to do anything with rudder and <BR>> throttle. Throttle was at idle. <BR>> <BR>> 5. When we checked the crash site. One aileron servo was <BR>> buzzing hard. I disconnected the servo. Therefore, my first impression that <BR>> the battery flew off and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was <BR>> not valid. <BR>> <BR>> 6. I took the plane home as it came from the crash. I <BR>> disconnected only
the ailerons servos. I checked the radio and everything is <BR>> working fine. Only two servos are not working. The throttle servo that was <BR>> practically destroyed in the crash and one aileron servo that the gears were <BR>> stripped. I believe that this was caused by the force of the impact. There was <BR>> not evidence of flutter in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage <BR>> after coming out of the snap. <BR>> <BR>> 7. I believe that the plane was well over stall speed after <BR>> the snap. Therefore, the plane was not in stalled condition. However, I could <BR>> be wrong. <BR>> <BR>> 7. I use JR all around with digital servos. PCM receiver with <BR>> fail safe programmed to cut engine and leave the servos in the last commanded <BR>> position. <BR>> <BR>> 8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery (4 cells AA Sanyo). I checked <BR>> the battery voltage and was at 5.15 volts after the crash. Discharged the <BR>> battery and
gave 1540 mah using 250mah rate. I am planning to cycle the <BR>> battery with higher loads. <BR>> <BR>> 9. It was very hot day. The plane was sitting in the sun and <BR>> it was second fly of the day around 2:00 PM. Easily was close to 100 oF. <BR>> <BR>> At this point, I have to admit that has to be pilot error <BR>> since I have not been able to find a definitive cause of the crash. It is <BR>> clear that the snap initiated some kind of failure. Other pilots think that <BR>> the NiMh battery gave up at high currents during the snap and caused the <BR>> crash. I have been flying this type of battery for two years now with no <BR>> problems. <BR>> <BR>> I am informing this to the group since I would like to have <BR>> your feedback. If someone had a similar problem and found the cause of the <BR>> crash, please let me know. I am going back to my backup plane (the old <BR>> hydeout). I have a brand new Abbra so need to put it togethe
r. <BR>> <BR>> Thanks and have a nice day, <BR>> <BR>> Vicente Bortone <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> No virus found in this incoming message. <BR>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. <BR>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: <BR>> 8/5/2006 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRC
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