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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A stalled or locked up servo could pull the voltage
down and essentially turn off the radio but it would seem to me that it would
take some time and the other servos would at least start back to neutral after
the snap inputs are removed. He could try plugging in the jammed servo and
see what happens but be ready to unplug it before it starts
smoking.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim O</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vanputte@cox.net href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">Ron Van Putte</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost
Abbra</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 6, 2006, at 9:50 PM, <A
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>The battery was a little over a year old. I cycled the battery
after the crash and got around 1540 mah. It was freshly charged and I
was in the second fly. I use around 200 mah per fly so the battery was
close to 2000 mah. I always charge at C/10 and never fast
charged. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am discharging the battery now at 500 mah. I
discharged the first time at 250 mah. I will keep increasing the
discharge rate to check if I find something wrong. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>I am willing to bet that you will
find a bad servo. Maybe Jim Oddino or one of the other radio wizards can
explain, but a single servo can cause the whole system to crash.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Ron</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Scott Anderson" <<A
href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com">scott@rcfoamy.com</A>> <BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>How old are the NiMh
batteries... People have found the have a steep drop off when going
bad..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>scott</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ;
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=fhhuber@clearwire.com
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">Fred Huber</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:19
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Lost Abbra</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Fred,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Usually I called pilot (and/or mechanic) error until I find the
cause of the crash. I haven't been in this position in a very
long time. I tend to agree with you since it was clear that I
didn't have control. However, the radio is working even after
such a crash. There was a comment at the field that NiMh
batteries can cause this problem. I will check the battery as
much as possible (cycle increasing the current draws) but
not sure if the test will be valid.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Fred Huber" <<A
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">fhhuber@clearwire.com</A>> <BR>
<DIV><FONT size=2>In that case... it may have gone to lock out just as
it was finishing the snap... rather than your control input to get out
of the rotation, the surfaces go to neutral, it over-rotates and then
plays lawn dart.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>No response at all its very easy to thing failsafe
lockout. Since the engine was already at the failsafe
setting, you don't have that indicator to confirm (or refute) the
lockout.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I wouldn't call it pilot error when the control
input attempts you made simply had no effect...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006
7:15 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Lost Abbra</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am wrong below in regard the fail safe in regard the fail
safe. The fail safe is programmed to cut the engine and set
the control surfaces at neutral. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: <A
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Yes, yesterday afternoon I
lost my Abbra. I was doing the 45 degree down with
snap. After the snap, I could not control the plane.
This is my recollection of events:<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">1. I over rotated the snap
for a kittle more than 90 degrees. It was clear to me
at that early stage that something was going wrong. I
snapped to the right. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">2. My friend Charlie was calling
for me. He also noticed and said something to put it
back in position. I told him that the plane was not
responding. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">3. First reaction was to give
full left to get it back upright. The ailerons did not
respond. When I realized that, I tried to take it out of the
dive by given down elevator since was pracically in inverted
position. It did not respond. It that aptitude
everything goes very fast. Finally, I tried to give up
elevator but was already too late. I am aware that I applied
these control input. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It was clear to me that
there was no reaction. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I was able to realize that
I didn't have control and I could not avoid the crash.
<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">4. I did not have time to do
anything with rudder and throttle. Throttle was at
idle. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">5. When we checked the crash
site. One aileron servo was buzzing hard. I disconnected the
servo. Therefore, my first impression that the battery flew
off and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was not
valid.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">6. I took the plane home as it
came from the crash.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>I disconnected only the ailerons servos. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I checked the radio and
everything is working fine. Only two servos are not
working. The throttle servo that was practically destroyed
in the crash and one aileron servo that the gears were
stripped.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe
that this was caused by the force of the impact. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There was not evidence of
flutter in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage
after coming out of the snap.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">7.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that the plane
was well over stall speed after the snap. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Therefore, the plane was
not in stalled condition.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>However, I could be wrong.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">7. I use JR all around with
digital servos. PCM receiver with fail safe programmed to
cut engine and leave the servos in the last commanded
position. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery (4
cells AA Sanyo). I checked the battery voltage and was at
5.15 volts after the crash. Discharged the battery and gave
1540 mah using 250mah rate. I am planning to cycle the
battery with higher loads. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">9. It was very hot day. The
plane was sitting in the sun and it was second fly of the day
around 2:00 PM. Easily was close to 100 oF.
<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">At this point, I have to admit
that has to be pilot error since I have not been able to find a
definitive cause of the crash. It is clear that the snap
initiated some kind of failure. Other pilots think that the
NiMh battery gave up at high currents during the snap and caused
the crash. I have been flying this type of battery for two
years now with no problems. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I am informing this to the group
since I would like to have your feedback. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If someone had a similar
problem and found the cause of the crash, please let me
know. I am going back to my backup plane (the old
hydeout). I have a brand new Abbra so need to put it
together. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Thanks and have a nice
day,<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Vicente
Bortone<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
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