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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi Vince, very sorry to hear about your
Abbra loss…..not much time to recover or evaluate the problem considering
where it happened. For what its worth, I’ve heard of airplane
losses due to over-demand voltage during snaps . I also hear many of the
giant scale guys are using “low impedance” nimh batteries when
using nimh because of servo over-demand during certain maneuvers such as snaps.
After hearing the low-impedance story I went to Hangtime Hobbies
and am now flying their KAM 1800 6v low impedance packs. Their site is
worth a visit just for the read. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>www.hangtimes.com/nobsbatteries.html<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I hope you find closure on the cause.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris White<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>vicenterc@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 07, 2006 5:49
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName>; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Lost Abbra</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I checked all servos but throttle and one aileron servo. All are
working on the bench fine. One of the aileron servos gears is locked in
maximum travel position and I am assuming that was caused in the crash.
However, I could be wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>-------------- Original
message -------------- <br>
From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte@cox.net> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Aug 6, 2006, at 9:50 PM, <a href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The battery was a little over a year old. I cycled the battery after
the crash and got around 1540 mah. It was freshly charged and I was in the
second fly. I use around 200 mah per fly so the battery was close to 2000 mah.
I always charge at C/10 and never fast charged. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am discharging the battery now at 500 mah. I discharged the first
time at 250 mah. I will keep increasing the discharge rate to check if I find
something wrong. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am willing to bet that you will find a bad servo. Maybe Jim Oddino or
one of the other radio wizards can explain, but a single servo can cause the
whole system to crash.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ron<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Scott Anderson" <<a href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com">scott@rcfoamy.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>How old are the NiMh batteries... People
have found the have a steep drop off when going bad..</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>scott</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net" title="vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</a> ; <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com" title="fhhuber@clearwire.com">Fred Huber</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Sunday, August 06,
2006 10:19 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Fred,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Usually I called pilot (and/or mechanic) error until I find the cause
of the crash. I haven't been in this position in a very long time. I tend to
agree with you since it was clear that I didn't have control. However, the
radio is working even after such a crash. There was a comment at the field that
NiMh batteries can cause this problem. I will check the battery as much as
possible (cycle increasing the current draws) but not sure if the test will be
valid.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Vicente "Vince" Bortone <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Fred Huber" <<a href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">fhhuber@clearwire.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>In that case... it may have gone to lock out just as it was finishing
the snap... rather than your control input to get out of the rotation, the
surfaces go to neutral, it over-rotates and then plays lawn dart.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>No response at all its very easy to thing failsafe lockout. Since the
engine was already at the failsafe setting, you don't have that indicator to
confirm (or refute) the lockout.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I wouldn't call it pilot error when the control input attempts you made
simply had no effect...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net" title="vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Sunday, August 06,
2006 7:15 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am wrong below in regard the fail safe in regard the fail safe. The
fail safe is programmed to cut the engine and set the control surfaces at
neutral. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
From: <a href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Yes, yesterday afternoon I lost my Abbra. I was doing the 45 degree
down with snap. After the snap, I could not control the plane. This is my recollection
of events:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<u1:P></u1:P>
<div><u1:P></u1:P>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>1. I over rotated the snap for a kittle more than 90 degrees. It was
clear to me at that early stage that something was going wrong. I snapped to
the right. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>2. My friend Charlie was calling for me. He also noticed and said
something to put it back in position. I told him that the plane was not
responding. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>3. First reaction was to give full left to get it back upright. The
ailerons did not respond. When I realized that, I tried to take it out of the
dive by given down elevator since was pracically in inverted position. It did
not respond. It that aptitude everything goes very fast. Finally, I tried to
give up elevator but was already too late. I am aware that I applied these
control input. It was clear to me that there was no reaction. I was able to
realize that I didn't have control and I could not avoid the crash. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>4. I did not have time to do anything with rudder and throttle.
Throttle was at idle. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>5. When we checked the crash site. One aileron servo was buzzing hard.
I disconnected the servo. Therefore, my first impression that the battery flew
off and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was not valid.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>6. I took the plane home as it came from the crash. I disconnected only
the ailerons servos. I checked the radio and everything is working fine. Only
two servos are not working. The throttle servo that was practically destroyed
in the crash and one aileron servo that the gears were stripped. I believe that
this was caused by the force of the impact. There was not evidence of flutter
in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage after coming out of the
snap.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>7. I believe that the plane was well over stall speed after the snap.
Therefore, the plane was not in stalled condition. However, I could be wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>7. I use JR all around with digital servos. PCM receiver with fail safe
programmed to cut engine and leave the servos in the last commanded position. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery (4 cells AA Sanyo). I checked the
battery voltage and was at 5.15 volts after the crash. Discharged the battery
and gave 1540 mah using 250mah rate. I am planning to cycle the battery with
higher loads. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>9. It was very hot day. The plane was sitting in the sun and it was
second fly of the day around 2:00 PM. Easily was close to 100 oF. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div><u1:P></u1:P>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>At this point, I have to admit that has to be pilot error since I have
not been able to find a definitive cause of the crash. It is clear that the
snap initiated some kind of failure. Other pilots think that the NiMh battery
gave up at high currents during the snap and caused the crash. I have been
flying this type of battery for two years now with no problems. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div><u1:P></u1:P>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I am informing this to the group since I would like to have your
feedback. If someone had a similar problem and found the cause of the crash,
please let me know. I am going back to my backup plane (the old hydeout). I
have a brand new Abbra so need to put it together. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div><u1:P></u1:P>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks and have a nice day,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
<div><u1:P></u1:P>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Vicente Bortone<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:P></u1:P></div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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