<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Aug 6, 2006, at 9:50 PM, <A href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV>The battery was a little over a year old. I cycled the battery after the crash and got around 1540 mah. It was freshly charged and I was in the second fly. I use around 200 mah per fly so the battery was close to 2000 mah. I always charge at C/10 and never fast charged. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am discharging the battery now at 500 mah. I discharged the first time at 250 mah. I will keep increasing the discharge rate to check if I find something wrong. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>I am willing to bet that you will find a bad servo. Maybe Jim Oddino or one of the other radio wizards can explain, but a single servo can cause the whole system to crash.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Ron</DIV><DIV><BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Scott Anderson" <<A href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com">scott@rcfoamy.com</A>> <BR> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="4">How old are the NiMh batteries... People have found the have a steep drop off when going bad..</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="4"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="4">scott</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title="vicenterc@comcast.net" href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title="fhhuber@clearwire.com" href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">Fred Huber</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006 10:19 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Fred,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Usually I called pilot (and/or mechanic) error until I find the cause of the crash. I haven't been in this position in a very long time. I tend to agree with you since it was clear that I didn't have control. However, the radio is working even after such a crash. There was a comment at the field that NiMh batteries can cause this problem. I will check the battery as much as possible (cycle increasing the current draws) but not sure if the test will be valid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Fred Huber" <<A href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">fhhuber@clearwire.com</A>> <BR> <DIV><FONT size="2">In that case... it may have gone to lock out just as it was finishing the snap... rather than your control input to get out of the rotation, the surfaces go to neutral, it over-rotates and then plays lawn dart.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size="2">No response at all its very easy to thing failsafe lockout. Since the engine was already at the failsafe setting, you don't have that indicator to confirm (or refute) the lockout.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size="2">I wouldn't call it pilot error when the control input attempts you made simply had no effect...</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title="vicenterc@comcast.net" href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:15 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>I am wrong below in regard the fail safe in regard the fail safe. The fail safe is programmed to cut the engine and set the control surfaces at neutral. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <A href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> <BR> <DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">Yes, yesterday afternoon I lost my Abbra. I was doing the 45 degree down with snap. After the snap, I could not control the plane. This is my recollection of events:<O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; "> <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">1. I over rotated the snap for a kittle more than 90 degrees. It was clear to me at that early stage that something was going wrong. I snapped to the right. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">2. My friend Charlie was calling for me. He also noticed and said something to put it back in position. I told him that the plane was not responding. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">3. First reaction was to give full left to get it back upright. The ailerons did not respond. When I realized that, I tried to take it out of the dive by given down elevator since was pracically in inverted position. It did not respond. It that aptitude everything goes very fast. Finally, I tried to give up elevator but was already too late. I am aware that I applied these control input. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It was clear to me that there was no reaction. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I was able to realize that I didn't have control and I could not avoid the crash. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">4. I did not have time to do anything with rudder and throttle. Throttle was at idle. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">5. When we checked the crash site. One aileron servo was buzzing hard. I disconnected the servo. Therefore, my first impression that the battery flew off and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was not valid.<O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">6. I took the plane home as it came from the crash.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I disconnected only the ailerons servos. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I checked the radio and everything is working fine. Only two servos are not working. The throttle servo that was practically destroyed in the crash and one aileron servo that the gears were stripped.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that this was caused by the force of the impact. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There was not evidence of flutter in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage after coming out of the snap.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">7.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that the plane was well over stall speed after the snap. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Therefore, the plane was not in stalled condition.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, I could be wrong.<O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">7. I use JR all around with digital servos. PCM receiver with fail safe programmed to cut engine and leave the servos in the last commanded position. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery (4 cells AA Sanyo). I checked the battery voltage and was at 5.15 volts after the crash. Discharged the battery and gave 1540 mah using 250mah rate. I am planning to cycle the battery with higher loads. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">9. It was very hot day. The plane was sitting in the sun and it was second fly of the day around 2:00 PM. Easily was close to 100 oF. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; "> <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">At this point, I have to admit that has to be pilot error since I have not been able to find a definitive cause of the crash. It is clear that the snap initiated some kind of failure. Other pilots think that the NiMh battery gave up at high currents during the snap and caused the crash. I have been flying this type of battery for two years now with no problems. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; "> <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">I am informing this to the group since I would like to have your feedback. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If someone had a similar problem and found the cause of the crash, please let me know. I am going back to my backup plane (the old hydeout). I have a brand new Abbra so need to put it together. <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; "> <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">Thanks and have a nice day,<O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; "> <O:P></O:P></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 0in; ">Vicente Bortone<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/410 - Release Date: 8/5/2006<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>