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<DIV><FONT size=2>You would have noticed the effect of one aileron locked at
full travel in flight... very hard to miss that. Been there,
luckilly with a plane that had enough rudder and dihedral (with the other
aileron) to overcome it. They don't fly any kind of straight line with one
aileron stuck at high deflection.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>That doesn't guarantee the servo wan't the cause of the
failure, but the position of the gears had to have been changed in the
impact. You should be able to pull the servo case top, unjam the gears and
test the servo somewhat. But even finding an electical/electronic problem,
it would still be debateable if that servo was the cause since jamming the gears
that badly says the servo could have been otherwise damaged in the
impact.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Finding the cause of a loss of control crash can be very
difficult if the cause is not obvious.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 07, 2006 5:48
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lost
Abbra</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ron,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I checked all servos but throttle and one aileron servo. All are
working on the bench fine. One of the aileron servos gears is locked in
maximum travel position and I am assuming that was caused in the crash.
However, I could be wrong.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: Ron Van Putte <<A
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</A>> <BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Aug 6, 2006, at 9:50 PM, <A
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>The battery was a little over a year old. I cycled the battery after
the crash and got around 1540 mah. It was freshly charged and I was in the
second fly. I use around 200 mah per fly so the battery was close to 2000
mah. I always charge at C/10 and never fast charged. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am discharging the battery now at 500 mah. I discharged the first
time at 250 mah. I will keep increasing the discharge rate to check if I
find something wrong. </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>I am willing to bet that you
will find a bad servo. Maybe Jim Oddino or one of the other radio wizards
can explain, but a single servo can cause the whole system to crash.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Ron</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Scott Anderson" <<A
href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com">scott@rcfoamy.com</A>> <BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>How old are the NiMh
batteries... People have found the have a steep drop off when going
bad..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>scott</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
; <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=fhhuber@clearwire.com href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">Fred
Huber</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006
10:19 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Lost Abbra</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Fred,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Usually I called pilot (and/or mechanic) error until I find the
cause of the crash. I haven't been in this position in a very long
time. I tend to agree with you since it was clear that I didn't have
control. However, the radio is working even after such a crash. There
was a comment at the field that NiMh batteries can cause this problem.
I will check the battery as much as possible (cycle increasing the
current draws) but not sure if the test will be valid.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Fred Huber" <<A
href="mailto:fhhuber@clearwire.com">fhhuber@clearwire.com</A>>
<BR>
<DIV><FONT size=2>In that case... it may have gone to lock out just
as it was finishing the snap... rather than your control input to
get out of the rotation, the surfaces go to neutral, it over-rotates
and then plays lawn dart.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>No response at all its very easy to thing failsafe
lockout. Since the engine was already at the failsafe setting, you
don't have that indicator to confirm (or refute) the
lockout.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I wouldn't call it pilot error when the control
input attempts you made simply had no effect...</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 06, 2006
7:15 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Lost Abbra</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am wrong below in regard the fail safe in regard the fail
safe. The fail safe is programmed to cut the engine and set the
control surfaces at neutral. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: <A
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A>
<BR>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Yes, yesterday afternoon I lost
my Abbra. I was doing the 45 degree down with snap. After the
snap, I could not control the plane. This is my recollection of
events:<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">1. I over rotated the snap for
a kittle more than 90 degrees. It was clear to me at that early
stage that something was going wrong. I snapped to the right.
<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">2. My friend Charlie was
calling for me. He also noticed and said something to put it
back in position. I told him that the plane was not responding.
<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">3. First reaction was to give
full left to get it back upright. The ailerons did not respond.
When I realized that, I tried to take it out of the dive by
given down elevator since was pracically in inverted position.
It did not respond. It that aptitude everything goes very fast.
Finally, I tried to give up elevator but was already too late. I
am aware that I applied these control input. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>It was clear to me that there
was no reaction. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>I was
able to realize that I didn't have control and I could not avoid
the crash. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">4. I did not have time to do
anything with rudder and throttle. Throttle was at idle.
<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">5. When we checked the crash
site. One aileron servo was buzzing hard. I disconnected the
servo. Therefore, my first impression that the battery flew off
and it got disconnected with the force of the snap was not
valid.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">6. I took the plane home as it
came from the crash.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I
disconnected only the ailerons servos. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>I checked the radio and
everything is working fine. Only two servos are not working. The
throttle servo that was practically destroyed in the crash and
one aileron servo that the gears were stripped.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that this was caused
by the force of the impact. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>There was not evidence of
flutter in the ailerons before the crash or structural damage
after coming out of the snap.</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">7.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I believe that the plane was
well over stall speed after the snap. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>Therefore, the plane was not in
stalled condition.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>However, I could be wrong.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">7. I use JR all around with
digital servos. PCM receiver with fail safe programmed to cut
engine and leave the servos in the last commanded position.
<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">8. I use 2300 mah NiMh battery
(4 cells AA Sanyo). I checked the battery voltage and was at
5.15 volts after the crash. Discharged the battery and gave 1540
mah using 250mah rate. I am planning to cycle the battery with
higher loads. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">9. It was very hot day. The
plane was sitting in the sun and it was second fly of the day
around 2:00 PM. Easily was close to 100 oF. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">At this point, I have to admit
that has to be pilot error since I have not been able to find a
definitive cause of the crash. It is clear that the snap
initiated some kind of failure. Other pilots think that the NiMh
battery gave up at high currents during the snap and caused the
crash. I have been flying this type of battery for two years now
with no problems. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I am informing this to the
group since I would like to have your feedback. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>If someone had a similar
problem and found the cause of the crash, please let me know. I
am going back to my backup plane (the old hydeout). I have a
brand new Abbra so need to put it together. <O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Thanks and have a nice
day,<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Vicente
Bortone<O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
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