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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Perhaps. But, if you do as I have done, and take
some film of several of the top flyers and analyze it at 10 to 20 power
magnification, you may be amazed at what you will see on a replay, or upon
running it slow motion. I know that I am. Their fingers are as
dexterous as their brains.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat
Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 4:55 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped
to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You may be making the situation overly complex.
The fliers are interested in presenting a good manuever and it is not
that difficult. We need to get all judges on the same
wavelength.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@triad.rr.com href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill
Glaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 3:09
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped
to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Georgie:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Such a thing exists as that of which you write.
IMAC has done exactly what's needed to, through a Powerpoint movie
projection. This movie format clears away the verbal
clutter. The presentation includes effect of different inputs,
stick position, right and wrong ways of performing the figure, etc. and the
presentation absolutely and fundamentally reduces the cobwebs about
this maneuver. Having said that, nothing is 100% and you will always
have folks (read: judges) who may be fairly easy to "fool", and flyers who
are masters of doing the fooling. IMHO, it's all part of the
game. All we can do is to try to reduce the amount of "fooling" and
the amount of "being fooled" to a bearable minimum. Or so I see
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 1:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
klipped to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
"We need descriptive language that is widely
accepted."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> What we've had for years is "LANGUAGE"
! In my experience, everything expressed in language has been
twisted and manipulated and interpreted to the whim of the reader and will
never be able to achieve the status of being widely accepted.</DIV>
<DIV>IMHO, the best shot at reaching some degree of consensus is a actual
video that you can slow-down, speed-up and analyze to your heart's
content. Then and only then can a descriptive (language) be written that
is capable of being supported by what takes place in the video. It becomes
very difficult to challenge what is visually apparent.</DIV>
<DIV>We probably not only need the video of the correct way to do it, but
additional videos displaying poor execution and highlighting and
explaining the downgrades even the subtle inadequacies.</DIV>
<DIV>This is the only way this thing is ever going to go away, IMO.Without
such a tool we'll be doing this forever.</DIV>
<DIV>I still love ya, Nat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV>G. </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 12:11
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
klipped to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Del, the problem is "everyone has thier
opinion and everyone has to stick with what they feel is the correct way
to address snaps".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We need descriptive language that is
widely accepted.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=drykert2@rochester.rr.com
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com">Del K. Rykert</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 10:04
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
klipped to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>George and all...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Not to step on
anyone's toes and many opinions are flying... Some are very
erroneous... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I have my opinion and
have to stick with what I feel is the correct way to address snaps.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I follow what is
written in the rule book.. end of story... Part of the
ambiguity stems from different aircraft and different pilots use
different inputs to produce their maneuver. It is left up to us
judges to score what we see based on the Don Ramsey or the rule book
has said. Has nothing to do with what a full scale snap may look
like.. has nothing to do with what a 1/3rd or 1.4 scale snap may
look like.. Different breed of cat and visually appear
different... IMHO.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> If someone was able to
produce a visual file of what is and what is not acceptable might help
some.. Part of the problem we as humans are expected to process
visually and mentally what occurs often in less than 1 sec for the
meat of the maneuver and some are going to not see some flaws when so
much of the maneuver occurs is so a small space and time. Heaven
forbid if a judge blinks or gets teary eyed from wind at moment of
execution. I have been fooled by some and gave a score.. I
try my darndest to catch all those that try to fool me. I am
only human but a very hard nosed judge. Does that mean we
shouldn't have the snap in the schedule? I myself think
that is a pretty drastic reaction. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I try to follow what I
was taught at judging seminars. focus on CG of aircraft. A
definite break in flight path has to occur if a true snap
occurred. I defy anyone to show me how and airplane.. any
airplane can do a true snap and at least not have had some degree of
break in flight path.. Correct me if I am all wet ... Also
the tail should show some conical movement along with the
break.. have to be careful to not confuse some that do a
barrel roll but still have a little conical movement of tail.. I
have seen it done.. and they received their appropriate goose egg.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Nothing is written
about the aircraft speed being a judging factor... before during or
after the snap.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> stepping down..
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
Del <BR> nsrca -
473</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w.
kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 05, 2006
7:20 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have received several e-mails from
some very accomplished pilots who have indicated that they are
perplexed regarding the requirements regarding the proper execution
of the snap maneuver. Specifically what needs to be shown to the
judge in order to score well. Even among the judging community there
is a lack of consensus with many misunderstandings of what
constitutes a "break" and recognizing the stalled condition and
heaven forbid, the auto-rotation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is apparent that a standard needs to
be adopted that will once and for all end the individualized
interpretations being submitted from all quarters (mine
included).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If indeed there is a correct process
involved to bring about the proper execution of this maneuver, then
it should be possible for the people responsible for handing down
the final definitives, to single out the pilot who consistantly
performs this maneuver to the precise satisfaction of their judging
criteria and have the performance video-taped and made part of the
NSRCA web-site and eliminate the confusion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This will enable anyone to visit the
web-site, observe the process, and come away with the full knowledge
of how to (as Robert Gainey says) score TENS !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Yeah, Me.......(who
else?) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tretas513@yahoo.com
href="mailto:tretas513@yahoo.com">Tommy Scarmardo</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 04, 2006
2:38 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>George,</DIV>
<DIV>Kinda like when the judges tell us to slow down, we're flying
too fast !</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>tommy s<BR><BR><B><I>"george w. kennie" <<A
href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">geobet@gis.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>John,<BR>I
think I have a problem with #1.<BR>I think the pilot's
responsibility is to perform the maneuver correctly.<BR>The
Judges responsibility is to know what a correctly performed
maneuver <BR>looks like and then to score it accurately.<BR>The
pilot has no responsibility to satisfy a judge who may be
inept.<BR>G.<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message -----
<BR>From: "John Ferrell" <JOHNFERRELL@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>Sent:
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM<BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap<BR><BR><BR>> >From my point of
view:<BR>> 1. It remains the pilot's responsibility to
satisfy the judges.<BR>> 2. What is and is not a snap is
defined by our rules.<BR>> 3. All airplanes do not snap
alike, see #1.<BR>> 4. "Burying the Snap" by over controlling
will eventually put you in a<BR>> situation that will score
poorly.<BR>><BR>> IMHO:<BR>> Those of us with a chronic
problem of over controlling usually wind up<BR>> selecting
control travel limits based on what it takes to snap and
spin.<BR>> Those with the gift of fine motor control can get
away with more sensitive<BR>> controls.<BR>><BR>> John
Ferrell W8CCW<BR>> "My Competition is not my enemy"<BR>>
http://DixieNC.US<BR>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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