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"We need descriptive language that is widely
accepted."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> What we've had for years is "LANGUAGE"
! In my experience, everything expressed in language has been
twisted and manipulated and interpreted to the whim of the reader and will never
be able to achieve the status of being widely accepted.</DIV>
<DIV>IMHO, the best shot at reaching some degree of consensus is a actual video
that you can slow-down, speed-up and analyze to your heart's content. Then and
only then can a descriptive (language) be written that is capable of being
supported by what takes place in the video. It becomes very difficult to
challenge what is visually apparent.</DIV>
<DIV>We probably not only need the video of the correct way to do it, but
additional videos displaying poor execution and highlighting and explaining the
downgrades even the subtle inadequacies.</DIV>
<DIV>This is the only way this thing is ever going to go away, IMO.Without such
a tool we'll be doing this forever.</DIV>
<DIV>I still love ya, Nat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV>G. </DIV></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat
Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 12:11
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped
to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Del, the problem is "everyone has thier opinion
and everyone has to stick with what they feel is the correct way to address
snaps".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We need descriptive language that is widely
accepted.</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=drykert2@rochester.rr.com
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com">Del K. Rykert</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 10:04
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] klipped to
repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>George and all...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Not to step on anyone's toes
and many opinions are flying... Some are very erroneous...
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I have my opinion and have
to stick with what I feel is the correct way to address snaps. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I follow what is written in
the rule book.. end of story... Part of the ambiguity stems from
different aircraft and different pilots use different inputs to produce
their maneuver. It is left up to us judges to score what we see based
on the Don Ramsey or the rule book has said. Has nothing to do with
what a full scale snap may look like.. has nothing to do with what a
1/3rd or 1.4 scale snap may look like.. Different breed of cat and
visually appear different... IMHO.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> If someone was able to
produce a visual file of what is and what is not acceptable might help
some.. Part of the problem we as humans are expected to process
visually and mentally what occurs often in less than 1 sec for the meat of
the maneuver and some are going to not see some flaws when so much of the
maneuver occurs is so a small space and time. Heaven forbid if a judge
blinks or gets teary eyed from wind at moment of execution. I have
been fooled by some and gave a score.. I try my darndest to catch all
those that try to fool me. I am only human but a very hard nosed
judge. Does that mean we shouldn't have the snap in the
schedule? I myself think that is a pretty drastic
reaction. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I try to follow what I was
taught at judging seminars. focus on CG of aircraft. A definite break
in flight path has to occur if a true snap occurred. I defy anyone to
show me how and airplane.. any airplane can do a true snap and at least not
have had some degree of break in flight path.. Correct me if I am all
wet ... Also the tail should show some conical movement along
with the break.. have to be careful to not confuse some that do
a barrel roll but still have a little conical movement of tail.. I
have seen it done.. and they received their appropriate goose egg.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Nothing is written about the
aircraft speed being a judging factor... before during or after the snap..
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> stepping down..
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
Del <BR> nsrca -
473</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have received several e-mails from some
very accomplished pilots who have indicated that they are perplexed
regarding the requirements regarding the proper execution of the snap
maneuver. Specifically what needs to be shown to the judge in order to
score well. Even among the judging community there is a lack of consensus
with many misunderstandings of what constitutes a "break" and recognizing
the stalled condition and heaven forbid, the auto-rotation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is apparent that a standard needs to be
adopted that will once and for all end the individualized interpretations
being submitted from all quarters (mine included).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If indeed there is a correct process involved
to bring about the proper execution of this maneuver, then it should be
possible for the people responsible for handing down the final
definitives, to single out the pilot who consistantly performs this
maneuver to the precise satisfaction of their judging criteria and have
the performance video-taped and made part of the NSRCA web-site and
eliminate the confusion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This will enable anyone to visit the
web-site, observe the process, and come away with the full knowledge of
how to (as Robert Gainey says) score TENS !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Yeah, Me.......(who
else?) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tretas513@yahoo.com href="mailto:tretas513@yahoo.com">Tommy
Scarmardo</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 04, 2006 2:38
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>George,</DIV>
<DIV>Kinda like when the judges tell us to slow down, we're flying too
fast !</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>tommy s<BR><BR><B><I>"george w. kennie" <<A
href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">geobet@gis.net</A>></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>John,<BR>I
think I have a problem with #1.<BR>I think the pilot's responsibility
is to perform the maneuver correctly.<BR>The Judges responsibility is
to know what a correctly performed maneuver <BR>looks like and then to
score it accurately.<BR>The pilot has no responsibility to satisfy a
judge who may be inept.<BR>G.<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message
----- <BR>From: "John Ferrell" <JOHNFERRELL@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>Sent:
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 10:20 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap<BR><BR><BR>> >From my point of view:<BR>> 1. It remains
the pilot's responsibility to satisfy the judges.<BR>> 2. What is
and is not a snap is defined by our rules.<BR>> 3. All airplanes do
not snap alike, see #1.<BR>> 4. "Burying the Snap" by over
controlling will eventually put you in a<BR>> situation that will
score poorly.<BR>><BR>> IMHO:<BR>> Those of us with a chronic
problem of over controlling usually wind up<BR>> selecting control
travel limits based on what it takes to snap and spin.<BR>> Those
with the gift of fine motor control can get away with more
sensitive<BR>> controls.<BR>><BR>> John Ferrell W8CCW<BR>>
"My Competition is not my enemy"<BR>>
http://DixieNC.US<BR>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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