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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>when you sent it in for checkup was it with the
everything.. switch, servos, receiver and Tx.? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Del</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John
Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 06, 2006 9:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog
Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=990375300-07072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Scott,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=990375300-07072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>That's why I asked if you had an oscilloscope. You may have been
able to see the screwed up servo pulses with that. Anyway, at this point,
don't worry about this stuff. Go out and practice! That's the most important
thing right now. See you at the NATs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=990375300-07072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN class=990375300-07072006>
<P><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A> </FONT> </P>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV></SPAN><SPAN class=990375300-07072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>BTW - I flew digital servos on a Futaba PPM Rx last year. No
problems. You have something going on there - re-visit it when you get
back from the NATs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=990375300-07072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Scott
Pavlock<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:08 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF
Masking and....Thanks!<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Jim,<BR><BR>Your post makes more
sense to me than any other so far. This would explain why so many different
set ups revealed the same jittery results, but when a PCM receiver was
introduced, it relieved the problem.<BR><BR>I am happy to say, with many
many thanks to the Jesky's, that I am running a new, total JR set up in the
plane now, with very nice results so far. I think I can go flying tomorrow,
FINALLY, and not worry so much about glitching. <BR><BR>Jim's last post
seems to be the closest thing to the cause of this dilemma. Looking at the
characteristics of the problem, I just don't see it being a result of "brand
mixing." Looking at the issues, and looking at what solved the issues, this
seems to be the absolute most logical explanation for what is happening.
<BR><BR>I used to think PCM was just a more expensive way to perform a
simple task, but now I see that it is not. I can honestly say that I will
not fly digital servos on PPM any more.<BR><BR>Thanks a TON for everyone's
input on this issue, it's all helped so much!! <BR><BR>See everyone in
Muncie!<BR><BR>Scott Pavlock<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/6/06, <B
class=gmail_sendername>J.Oddino</B> <<A
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>PPM signals are analog, not digital. If
there is noise introduced to the system in the RF link it shows up as
jitter (small changes in pulse width at fairly high frequency) on the
pulse width output to the servos. As the range increases the noise
increases and the jitter increases. The digital servos have very
tight deadband and will respond to the pulse jitter. The analog
servos may have a large deadband in which case they would not respond to
the jitter. A PCM receiver is a true digital device and noise added
in the RF link can not get through. If the noise gets bad enough it
will go into hold or failsafe but you will not get servo
jitter. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Deadband is the range that the pulse
width can change before the servo will respond. A tight servo
will respond with a pulse width change as small as one
microsecond.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not saying this is the cause of your
problem but it is something to check. Hope this helps.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim O</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=q>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=f3aflyer7@gmail.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target=_blank>Scott Pavlock</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_10c4216f4aa81fb8_2>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 6:04 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>J.<BR>Yes PPM / Dead band ?<BR><BR>In the problem set up
they are all JR digital servos only. 2 - 9411sa's, 1 - 8411sa, 1 - 8417, 1
- 3421sa) they all are glitching.I'm not mixing analog and digital at any
time. The glitch has been as drastic as a violent 1/4 inch up and down
movement on the elevator surface when we first plugged them in after we
received the system back from service to this constant noise on all servos
with no load. <BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Ed
Alt</B> <<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com" target=_blank>ed_alt@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Scott:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OK, is any of the analog servos? Do
the digitals also do it? (I assume not). For
example, I've noticed that JR 4721 and 4131 servos have a cyclic
response to most any JR digital installed on the same receiver.
Everything worked fine from a reliability/range standpoint, but there
was this small, regular interval "blit"; just a couple of degrees of
movement from whatever position the analog servo should have been
remaining in. The digitals were rock solid, the 4131 and 4721 just
blitted a little bit. I finally decided that I just wouldn't mix
the 4131 or 4721 in a digital servo environment and that was the end of
it.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=f3aflyer7@gmail.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target=_blank>Scott Pavlock</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA
Mailing List</A> </DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:06 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ed<BR><BR> WE used three different Rx two different
brands all the same glitch also put hole setup in my dad trainer same
glitch also used my dads brand new RX and TX same glitch. Used three
different freq. same glitch.So we tried a analog servo no glitch we
replaced them all with analog no glitch still no confidence in the
system. <BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Scott
Pavlock</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com"
target=_blank>f3aflyer7@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>Scott<BR><BR> I don't know if Tony put it on a shaker table
or not but he did put six hours in the system. And he really went out
of his way to get it to us asap.With the 4th holiday I've not been
able to contact him, maybe tommorow. While range checking the digis if
I put my hand on the antenna the glitch increased but with the analog
there was no glitch at all. My father and I have been working this
problem for over a month we have replaced everything or sent it in to
be checked.Right now no glitches with analogs but again will the
glitch present itself as noticably with analogs as apose to the
digis.We have no glitch right now but still no confidence in the
system.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><BR>Scott </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B
class=gmail_sendername>Scott Anderson</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com"
target=_blank>scott@rcfoamy.com</A>> wrote: </SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hi Scott,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Stupid question, did you
send RX out and have it put on a shaker table and checked.. I had a
RX issue for over a month and spent time with Tony S. and he found a
bad filter on the board.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Just my 2 cents from a
fellow team member..</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Scott
Anderson</FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=f3aflyer7@gmail.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target=_blank>Scott Pavlock</A>
</DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA
Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 6:29 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I've used multiple battery set ups including ones
without a regulator on a normal NiCd pack, and also on both a 5.6v
regulator and a 6v regulator.<BR><BR>John,<BR><BR>No I don't. I
actually have no clue what that is haha.<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B
class=gmail_sendername>John Pavlick</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
target=_blank>jpavlick@idseng.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Do you have
access to an oscilloscope?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<P><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.idseng.com"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT>
</P></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Scott Pavlock<BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July
04, 2006 5:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF
Masking and....Thanks!<BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>I've literally tried EVERYTHING possible to isolate the
problem. The only problem I can find is solely in the servos. The
battery is bran new (duralite 2s2p), bran new heavy duty MPI
switch. I can reproduce the problem with the digis with many
different switch/battery/regulator set ups. I know current draw
isn't a problem as I've flown this set up for 2 years with no
faults. <BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B
class=gmail_sendername>John Pavlick</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
target=_blank>jpavlick@idseng.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Scott,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> Well I'm
sure you've been through a lot already, but what you need to do
is try to isolate the problem if possible. Start with a working
setup (the analog servos). Next, add 1 digital servo. If it
still works, remove that servo and try another. Only change ONE
thing at a time. If it works with 1 digital servo ALL THE TIME,
then add a second one. If you start to see problems as you add
more digital servos (i.e gets worse with 3 or 4 digital servos
but seems to work OK with 1 or 2), look at your battery and
switch. What are you using for a battery and switch by the way?
If your radio checks out OK (RF-wise) it's more likely that
there is a problem with power. I bet you didn't have Rx the
batteries checked did you? As you know, analog servos don't draw
nearly as much current as digital servos. That could be the
problem. If you have any way to look at the voltage when all of
this is happening it could reveal some things. One way to do
this is to put a servo lead in an unused channel on the Rx,
connect it to a voltmeter, turn everything on and move the
sticks. Don't use an Expanded-scale volt meter, just a plain old
DVM (or better yet an analog volt meter) will do. See what that
tells you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<P><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.idseng.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT>
</P></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Scott Pavlock<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 04,
2006 3:58 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Discussion
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF
Masking and....Thanks!<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>First I would like to thank everyone for the great
advice on these last few posts I've posted. Everyone has been a
big help.<BR><BR>I'd like to ask if anyone knows if an analog
servo would mask glitches coming in?<BR>(2 - Futaba 3010's, 2 -
Hitec HS77's, 1 - HS81MG) <BR><BR>When I connect my JR digital
servos ( 2 - 9411sa's, 1 - 8411sa, 1 - 8417, 1 - 3421sa) I get a
pretty significant, constant glitch, as if the servos are
constantly trying to center, but they have no load what so ever.
This is the problem I have described in previous posts.
<BR><BR>When I connect analog servos in an identical set up,
there is no "noise" at all. I range tested them at 100 feet with
1 antenna section up and there is no loss in speed and no
sluggish behavior. I also range tested this at about 300 feet
with the antenna completely down just for kicks, and I get the
same results. <BR><BR>When I range test the digital servos, even
at the 100 foot range with the antenna completely extended there
is a significant, constant glitch. The servos, receiver, and
transmitter have all just gotten back from being checked and the
9411sa's had new pots put in, the receiver had been re-tuned to
the frequency, and the transmitter got a new antenna. I am very
surprised with these results as I just spent a fair amount of
money to have my electronics looked at and deemed well.
<BR><BR>Now, my question again, are my analog servos just
masking a problem, or is this solely a problem in the digital
servos?<BR><BR>Thanks a ton
everyone!<BR><BR>Scott<BR></SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN class=q>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by
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<DIV><SPAN class=q>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.8/380 -
Release Date: 6/30/2006<BR></SPAN></DIV>
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