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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You may be making the situation overly complex.
The fliers are interested in presenting a good manuever and it is not that
difficult. We need to get all judges on the same wavelength.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=billglaze@triad.rr.com href="mailto:billglaze@triad.rr.com">Bill
Glaze</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 3:09 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped
to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Georgie:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Such a thing exists as that of which you write.
IMAC has done exactly what's needed to, through a Powerpoint movie
projection. This movie format clears away the verbal
clutter. The presentation includes effect of different inputs,
stick position, right and wrong ways of performing the figure, etc. and the
presentation absolutely and fundamentally reduces the cobwebs about this
maneuver. Having said that, nothing is 100% and you will always have
folks (read: judges) who may be fairly easy to "fool", and flyers who are
masters of doing the fooling. IMHO, it's all part of the game. All
we can do is to try to reduce the amount of "fooling" and the amount of "being
fooled" to a bearable minimum. Or so I see it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bill Glaze</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w. kennie</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 1:16
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] klipped
to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
"We need descriptive language that is widely
accepted."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> What we've had for years is "LANGUAGE"
! In my experience, everything expressed in language has been
twisted and manipulated and interpreted to the whim of the reader and will
never be able to achieve the status of being widely accepted.</DIV>
<DIV>IMHO, the best shot at reaching some degree of consensus is a actual
video that you can slow-down, speed-up and analyze to your heart's content.
Then and only then can a descriptive (language) be written that is capable
of being supported by what takes place in the video. It becomes very
difficult to challenge what is visually apparent.</DIV>
<DIV>We probably not only need the video of the correct way to do it, but
additional videos displaying poor execution and highlighting and explaining
the downgrades even the subtle inadequacies.</DIV>
<DIV>This is the only way this thing is ever going to go away, IMO.Without
such a tool we'll be doing this forever.</DIV>
<DIV>I still love ya, Nat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV>G. </DIV></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 12:11
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
klipped to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Del, the problem is "everyone has thier
opinion and everyone has to stick with what they feel is the correct way
to address snaps".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We need descriptive language that is
widely accepted.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=drykert2@rochester.rr.com
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com">Del K. Rykert</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 07, 2006 10:04
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] klipped
to repost.. Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>George and all...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Not to step on anyone's
toes and many opinions are flying... Some are very erroneous...
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I have my opinion and
have to stick with what I feel is the correct way to address snaps.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I follow what is written
in the rule book.. end of story... Part of the ambiguity
stems from different aircraft and different pilots use different inputs
to produce their maneuver. It is left up to us judges to score
what we see based on the Don Ramsey or the rule book has said. Has
nothing to do with what a full scale snap may look like.. has
nothing to do with what a 1/3rd or 1.4 scale snap may look like..
Different breed of cat and visually appear different...
IMHO.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> If someone was able to
produce a visual file of what is and what is not acceptable might help
some.. Part of the problem we as humans are expected to process
visually and mentally what occurs often in less than 1 sec for the meat
of the maneuver and some are going to not see some flaws when so much of
the maneuver occurs is so a small space and time. Heaven forbid if
a judge blinks or gets teary eyed from wind at moment of
execution. I have been fooled by some and gave a score.. I
try my darndest to catch all those that try to fool me. I am only
human but a very hard nosed judge. Does that mean we shouldn't
have the snap in the schedule? I myself think that is a
pretty drastic reaction. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I try to follow what I
was taught at judging seminars. focus on CG of aircraft. A
definite break in flight path has to occur if a true snap
occurred. I defy anyone to show me how and airplane.. any airplane
can do a true snap and at least not have had some degree of break in
flight path.. Correct me if I am all wet ... Also the tail
should show some conical movement along with the
break.. have to be careful to not confuse some that do a
barrel roll but still have a little conical movement of tail.. I
have seen it done.. and they received their appropriate goose egg.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Nothing is written about
the aircraft speed being a judging factor... before during or after the
snap.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> stepping down..
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
Del <BR> nsrca -
473</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">george w.
kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 05, 2006
7:20 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have received several e-mails from some
very accomplished pilots who have indicated that they are perplexed
regarding the requirements regarding the proper execution of the snap
maneuver. Specifically what needs to be shown to the judge in order to
score well. Even among the judging community there is a lack of
consensus with many misunderstandings of what constitutes a "break"
and recognizing the stalled condition and heaven forbid, the
auto-rotation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is apparent that a standard needs to
be adopted that will once and for all end the individualized
interpretations being submitted from all quarters (mine
included).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If indeed there is a correct process
involved to bring about the proper execution of this maneuver, then it
should be possible for the people responsible for handing down the
final definitives, to single out the pilot who consistantly performs
this maneuver to the precise satisfaction of their judging criteria
and have the performance video-taped and made part of the NSRCA
web-site and eliminate the confusion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This will enable anyone to visit the
web-site, observe the process, and come away with the full knowledge
of how to (as Robert Gainey says) score TENS !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Yeah, Me.......(who
else?) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tretas513@yahoo.com href="mailto:tretas513@yahoo.com">Tommy
Scarmardo</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 04, 2006
2:38 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>George,</DIV>
<DIV>Kinda like when the judges tell us to slow down, we're flying
too fast !</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>tommy s<BR><BR><B><I>"george w. kennie" <<A
href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">geobet@gis.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>John,<BR>I
think I have a problem with #1.<BR>I think the pilot's
responsibility is to perform the maneuver correctly.<BR>The Judges
responsibility is to know what a correctly performed maneuver
<BR>looks like and then to score it accurately.<BR>The pilot has
no responsibility to satisfy a judge who may be
inept.<BR>G.<BR><BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From:
"John Ferrell" <JOHNFERRELL@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>To: "NSRCA Mailing
List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>Sent: Tuesday, July
04, 2006 10:20 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap<BR><BR><BR>> >From my point of view:<BR>> 1. It
remains the pilot's responsibility to satisfy the judges.<BR>>
2. What is and is not a snap is defined by our rules.<BR>> 3.
All airplanes do not snap alike, see #1.<BR>> 4. "Burying the
Snap" by over controlling will eventually put you in a<BR>>
situation that will score poorly.<BR>><BR>> IMHO:<BR>>
Those of us with a chronic problem of over controlling usually
wind up<BR>> selecting control travel limits based on what it
takes to snap and spin.<BR>> Those with the gift of fine motor
control can get away with more sensitive<BR>>
controls.<BR>><BR>> John Ferrell W8CCW<BR>> "My
Competition is not my enemy"<BR>>
http://DixieNC.US<BR>><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
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