Jim,<br><br>Your post makes more sense to me than any other so far. This would explain why so many different set ups revealed the same jittery results, but when a PCM receiver was introduced, it relieved the problem.<br><br>
I am happy to say, with many many thanks to the Jesky's, that I am running a new, total JR set up in the plane now, with very nice results so far. I think I can go flying tomorrow, FINALLY, and not worry so much about glitching.
<br><br>Jim's last post seems to be the closest thing to the cause of this dilemma. Looking at the characteristics of the problem, I just don't see it being a result of "brand mixing." Looking at the issues, and looking at what solved the issues, this seems to be the absolute most logical explanation for what is happening.
<br><br>I used to think PCM was just a more expensive way to perform a simple task, but now I see that it is not. I can honestly say that I will not fly digital servos on PPM any more.<br><br>Thanks a TON for everyone's input on this issue, it's all helped so much!!
<br><br>See everyone in Muncie!<br><br>Scott Pavlock<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/6/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">J.Oddino</b> <<a href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">PPM signals are analog, not digital. If there
is noise introduced to the system in the RF link it shows up as jitter (small
changes in pulse width at fairly high frequency) on the pulse width output to
the servos. As the range increases the noise increases and the jitter
increases. The digital servos have very tight deadband and will respond to
the pulse jitter. The analog servos may have a large deadband in which
case they would not respond to the jitter. A PCM receiver is a true
digital device and noise added in the RF link can not get through. If the
noise gets bad enough it will go into hold or failsafe but you will not get
servo jitter. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Deadband is the range that the pulse width can
change before the servo will respond. A tight servo will respond with
a pulse width change as small as one microsecond.</font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I'm not saying this is the cause of your problem
but it is something to check. Hope this helps.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Jim O</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"></blockquote></div><div><span class="q">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="f3aflyer7@gmail.com" href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Scott
Pavlock</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
NSRCA Mailing List</a> </div></span></div><div><span class="e" id="q_10c4216f4aa81fb8_2">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 04, 2006 6:04
PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog
Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</div>
<div><br></div>J.<br>Yes PPM / Dead band ?<br><br>In the problem set up they
are all JR digital servos only. 2 - 9411sa's, 1 - 8411sa, 1 - 8417, 1 -
3421sa) they all are glitching.I'm not mixing analog and digital at any time.
The glitch has been as drastic as a violent 1/4 inch up and down movement on
the elevator surface when we first plugged them in after we received the
system back from service to this constant noise on all servos with no load.
<br><br>Scott<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/4/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Ed Alt</b>
<<a href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">ed_alt@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Scott:</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">OK, is any of the analog servos? Do the
digitals also do it? (I assume not). For example, I've
noticed that JR 4721 and 4131 servos have a cyclic response to most any JR
digital installed on the same receiver. Everything worked fine from a
reliability/range standpoint, but there was this small, regular interval
"blit"; just a couple of degrees of movement from whatever position the
analog servo should have been remaining in. The digitals were rock
solid, the 4131 and 4721 just blitted a little bit. I finally decided
that I just wouldn't mix the 4131 or 4721 in a digital servo environment and
that was the end of it.</font></div></div>
<div><span>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Ed</font></div></span></div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"></blockquote></div>
<div><span>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="f3aflyer7@gmail.com" href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Scott Pavlock</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">NSRCA Mailing
List</a> </div></span></div>
<div><span>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:06 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</div>
<div><br></div>Ed<br><br> WE used three different Rx two different
brands all the same glitch also put hole setup in my dad trainer same glitch
also used my dads brand new RX and TX same glitch. Used three different
freq. same glitch.So we tried a analog servo no glitch we replaced them all
with analog no glitch still no confidence in the system.
<br><br>Scott<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/4/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Scott
Pavlock</b> <<a href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">f3aflyer7@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Scott<br><br> I don't know if Tony put it on a shaker table or
not but he did put six hours in the system. And he really went out of his
way to get it to us asap.With the 4th holiday I've not been able to
contact him, maybe tommorow. While range checking the digis if I put my
hand on the antenna the glitch increased but with the analog there was no
glitch at all. My father and I have been working this problem for over a
month we have replaced everything or sent it in to be checked.Right now no
glitches with analogs but again will the glitch present itself as
noticably with analogs as apose to the digis.We have no glitch right now
but still no confidence in the system.<br></div>
<div><span><br>Scott </span></div>
<div><span><br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/4/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Scott
Anderson</b> <<a href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">scott@rcfoamy.com</a>>
wrote: </span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="4">Hi Scott,</font></div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="4">Stupid question, did you send
RX out and have it put on a shaker table and checked.. I had a RX issue
for over a month and spent time with Tony S. and he found a bad filter
on the board.. </font></div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="4">Just my 2 cents from a fellow
team member..</font></div></div>
<div><span>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="4">Scott
Anderson</font></div></span></div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"></blockquote></div>
<div><span>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="f3aflyer7@gmail.com" href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Scott Pavlock</a>
</div></span></div>
<div><span>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">NSRCA
Mailing List</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 6:29 PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</div>
<div><br></div>I've used multiple battery set ups including ones without
a regulator on a normal NiCd pack, and also on both a 5.6v regulator and
a 6v regulator.<br><br>John,<br><br>No I don't. I actually have no clue
what that is haha.<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/4/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">John
Pavlick</b> <<a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Do you have access to
an oscilloscope?</font></span></div></div>
<div><span>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div><span>
<p><font size="2">John Pavlick<br><a href="http://www.idseng.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.idseng.com</a><br> </font>
</p></span></div></span></div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"></font></div>
<div><span><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [mailto:
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Scott Pavlock<br></font></span></div>
<div><span><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 04,
2006 5:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> NSRCA Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking
and....Thanks!<br><br></font></span></div>
<div></div></blockquote></div>
<div><span>I've literally tried EVERYTHING possible to isolate the
problem. The only problem I can find is solely in the servos. The
battery is bran new (duralite 2s2p), bran new heavy duty MPI switch. I
can reproduce the problem with the digis with many different
switch/battery/regulator set ups. I know current draw isn't a problem
as I've flown this set up for 2 years with no faults. <br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/4/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">John
Pavlick</b> <<a href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">jpavlick@idseng.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Scott,</font></span></div>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"> Well I'm sure
you've been through a lot already, but what you need to do is try to
isolate the problem if possible. Start with a working setup (the
analog servos). Next, add 1 digital servo. If it still works, remove
that servo and try another. Only change ONE thing at a time. If it
works with 1 digital servo ALL THE TIME, then add a second one. If
you start to see problems as you add more digital servos (i.e gets
worse with 3 or 4 digital servos but seems to work OK with 1 or 2),
look at your battery and switch. What are you using for a battery
and switch by the way? If your radio checks out OK (RF-wise) it's
more likely that there is a problem with power. I bet you
didn't have Rx the batteries checked did you? As you know, analog
servos don't draw nearly as much current as digital servos. That
could be the problem. If you have any way to look at the voltage
when all of this is happening it could reveal some things. One way
to do this is to put a servo lead in an unused channel on the Rx,
connect it to a voltmeter, turn everything on and move the
sticks. Don't use an Expanded-scale volt meter, just a plain old DVM
(or better yet an analog volt meter) will do. See what that tells
you.</font></span></div></div>
<div><span>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div><span>
<p><font size="2">John Pavlick<br><a href="http://www.idseng.com/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.idseng.com</a><br> </font>
</p></span></div></span></div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"></blockquote></div>
<div><span>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original
Message-----<br><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a> [mailto:
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Scott Pavlock<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 04, 2006
3:58 PM<br><b>To:</b> NSRCA Discussion List<br><b>Subject:</b>
[NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking
and....Thanks!<br><br></font></div></span></div>
<div><span>First I would like to thank everyone for the great advice
on these last few posts I've posted. Everyone has been a big
help.<br><br>I'd like to ask if anyone knows if an analog servo
would mask glitches coming in?<br>(2 - Futaba 3010's, 2 - Hitec
HS77's, 1 - HS81MG) <br><br>When I connect my JR digital servos ( 2
- 9411sa's, 1 - 8411sa, 1 - 8417, 1 - 3421sa) I get a pretty
significant, constant glitch, as if the servos are constantly trying
to center, but they have no load what so ever. This is the problem I
have described in previous posts. <br><br>When I connect analog
servos in an identical set up, there is no "noise" at all. I range
tested them at 100 feet with 1 antenna section up and there is no
loss in speed and no sluggish behavior. I also range tested this at
about 300 feet with the antenna completely down just for kicks, and
I get the same results. <br><br>When I range test the digital
servos, even at the 100 foot range with the antenna completely
extended there is a significant, constant glitch. The servos,
receiver, and transmitter have all just gotten back from being
checked and the 9411sa's had new pots put in, the receiver had been
re-tuned to the frequency, and the transmitter got a new antenna. I
am very surprised with these results as I just spent a fair amount
of money to have my electronics looked at and deemed well.
<br><br>Now, my question again, are my analog servos just masking a
problem, or is this solely a problem in the digital
servos?<br><br>Thanks a ton everyone!<br><br>Scott<br></span></div>
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<p></p></div><div><span class="q">No virus found in this incoming message.<br>Checked by AVG Free
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