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<DIV><SPAN class=980020602-05072006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Good
point but - correction: TTL "high" is not 4.5V. TTL "high" (input level) is
2V - 5V / "low" is 0 - .8V. 5-volt CMOS "high" is 3.5V - 5.0V / "low" is 0 -
1.5V. I never knew that JR and Futaba worked at different I/O levels.
I've never had a big enough problem with my equipment to look at it in detail.
Sounds like he's running JR servos on a Futaba Rx (I missed the previous
part of the discussion) ? Like I said, try some Futaba digitals. At least
that would eliminate some of the possibilities. I have an airplane with JR
digital servos and a Futaba PCM Rx and I haven't experienced any problems
though. Hmm, maybe I should take a closer look. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=980020602-05072006>
<P><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Ed
White<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 04, 2006 9:54 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking
and....Thanks!<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Here's a new thought (and sorry if it
isn't). The control signal from the receiver to the servo is a pulse
width modulated signal that in most systems is either 0 volts or 5 volts (or
battery voltage). EXCEPT in Futaba PCM receivers where the position
signal varies from 0 to 3.3 volts (irregardless of your battery
voltage). Futaba servos are designed to handle this. But I notice
your digital servos are JR which are designed to expect 0 to ~5
volts.<BR><BR>I realize the flaw in this theory is that lots of people run JR
servos on Futaba PCM receivers. However, if your particular receiver
output voltage is on the low side for some reason, the JR servos may have
trouble reading the 3.3 volts (or maybe less) as logic high. If for
example something is loading down the control signal line causing it to drop
voltage a little it could be that Futaba servos which are designed for lower
voltage could be ignoring the lower voltage, but the JR's that are looking for
TTL levels (4.5 volts or higher) maybe be getting briefly confused.
<BR><BR>Somebody previously mentioned looking at the signal on an
oscilloscope. This may be your only check but I would be sure to do it
with all servos connected.<BR><BR>Ed<BR><BR><B><I>Scott Pavlock
<f3aflyer7@gmail.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">J.<BR>Yes
PPM / Dead band ?<BR><BR>In the problem set up they are all JR digital
servos only. 2 - 9411sa's, 1 - 8411sa, 1 - 8417, 1 - 3421sa) they all are
glitching.I'm not mixing analog and digital at any time. The glitch has been
as drastic as a violent 1/4 inch up and down movement on the elevator
surface when we first plugged them in after we received the system back from
service to this constant noise on all servos with no load.
<BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Ed Alt</B>
<<A href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">ed_alt@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Scott:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>OK, is any of the analog servos? Do the
digitals also do it? (I assume not). For example, I've
noticed that JR 4721 and 4131 servos have a cyclic response to most any JR
digital installed on the same receiver. Everything worked fine from
a reliability/range standpoint, but there was this small, regular interval
"blit"; just a couple of degrees of movement from whatever position
the analog servo should have been remaining in. The digitals were
rock solid, the 4131 and 4721 just blitted a little bit. I finally
decided that I just wouldn't mix the 4131 or 4721 in a digital servo
environment and that was the end of it.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=sg>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=q>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=f3aflyer7@gmail.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target=_blank>Scott Pavlock</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA Mailing
List</A> </DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_10c3c1daa744407a_4>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 8:06 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ed<BR><BR> WE used three different Rx two different
brands all the same glitch also put hole setup in my dad trainer same
glitch also used my dads brand new RX and TX same glitch. Used three
different freq. same glitch.So we tried a analog servo no glitch we
replaced them all with analog no glitch still no confidence in the system.
<BR><BR>Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Scott
Pavlock</B> <<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com"
target=_blank>f3aflyer7@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>Scott<BR><BR> I don't know if Tony put it on a shaker table or
not but he did put six hours in the system. And he really went out of
his way to get it to us asap.With the 4th holiday I've not been able to
contact him, maybe tommorow. While range checking the digis if I put my
hand on the antenna the glitch increased but with the analog there was
no glitch at all. My father and I have been working this problem for
over a month we have replaced everything or sent it in to be
checked.Right now no glitches with analogs but again will the glitch
present itself as noticably with analogs as apose to the digis.We have
no glitch right now but still no confidence in the system.<BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><BR>Scott </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Scott
Anderson</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:scott@rcfoamy.com" target=_blank>scott@rcfoamy.com</A>>
wrote: </SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Hi Scott,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Stupid question, did you
send RX out and have it put on a shaker table and checked.. I had a RX
issue for over a month and spent time with Tony S. and he found a bad
filter on the board.. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Just my 2 cents from a
fellow team member..</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=4>Scott
Anderson</FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=f3aflyer7@gmail.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:f3aflyer7@gmail.com" target=_blank>Scott Pavlock</A>
</DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA
Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Tuesday, July 04, 2006 6:29 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking and....Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I've used multiple battery set ups including ones
without a regulator on a normal NiCd pack, and also on both a 5.6v
regulator and a 6v regulator.<BR><BR>John,<BR><BR>No I don't. I
actually have no clue what that is haha.<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>John
Pavlick</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
target=_blank>jpavlick@idseng.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Do you have access
to an oscilloscope?</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.idseng.com"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT>
</DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto: <A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Scott Pavlock<BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 04,
2006 5:40 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking
and....Thanks!<BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>I've literally tried EVERYTHING possible to isolate the
problem. The only problem I can find is solely in the servos. The
battery is bran new (duralite 2s2p), bran new heavy duty MPI switch.
I can reproduce the problem with the digis with many different
switch/battery/regulator set ups. I know current draw isn't a
problem as I've flown this set up for 2 years with no faults.
<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 7/4/06, <B
class=gmail_sendername>John Pavlick</B> <<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com"
target=_blank>jpavlick@idseng.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Scott,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> Well I'm
sure you've been through a lot already, but what you need to do is
try to isolate the problem if possible. Start with a working setup
(the analog servos). Next, add 1 digital servo. If it still works,
remove that servo and try another. Only change ONE thing at a
time. If it works with 1 digital servo ALL THE TIME, then add a
second one. If you start to see problems as you add more digital
servos (i.e gets worse with 3 or 4 digital servos but seems to
work OK with 1 or 2), look at your battery and switch. What are
you using for a battery and switch by the way? If your radio
checks out OK (RF-wise) it's more likely that there is a problem
with power. I bet you didn't have Rx the batteries checked
did you? As you know, analog servos don't draw nearly as much
current as digital servos. That could be the problem. If you have
any way to look at the voltage when all of this is happening it
could reveal some things. One way to do this is to put a servo
lead in an unused channel on the Rx, connect it to a voltmeter,
turn everything on and move the sticks. Don't use an
Expanded-scale volt meter, just a plain old DVM (or better yet an
analog volt meter) will do. See what that tells
you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.idseng.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT>
</DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original
Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto: <A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target=_blank>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Scott Pavlock<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, July 04, 2006
3:58 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Discussion List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
[NSRCA-discussion] Analog Servo RF Masking
and....Thanks!<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN>First I would like to thank everyone for the great
advice on these last few posts I've posted. Everyone has been a
big help.<BR><BR>I'd like to ask if anyone knows if an analog
servo would mask glitches coming in?<BR>(2 - Futaba 3010's, 2 -
Hitec HS77's, 1 - HS81MG) <BR><BR>When I connect my JR digital
servos ( 2 - 9411sa's, 1 - 8411sa, 1 - 8417, 1 - 3421sa) I get a
pretty significant, constant glitch, as if the servos are
constantly trying to center, but they have no load what so ever.
This is the problem I have described in previous posts.
<BR><BR>When I connect analog servos in an identical set up, there
is no "noise" at all. I range tested them at 100 feet with 1
antenna section up and there is no loss in speed and no sluggish
behavior. I also range tested this at about 300 feet with the
antenna completely down just for kicks, and I get the same
results. <BR><BR>When I range test the digital servos, even at the
100 foot range with the antenna completely extended there is a
significant, constant glitch. The servos, receiver, and
transmitter have all just gotten back from being checked and the
9411sa's had new pots put in, the receiver had been re-tuned to
the frequency, and the transmitter got a new antenna. I am very
surprised with these results as I just spent a fair amount of
money to have my electronics looked at and deemed well.
<BR><BR>Now, my question again, are my analog servos just masking
a problem, or is this solely a problem in the digital
servos?<BR><BR>Thanks a ton
everyone!<BR><BR>Scott<BR></SPAN></DIV>
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