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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As a relative newcomer to competition I have to
agree with Gray. I think take off and landing should be judged and if you are
good enough to compete you should be good enough to take off and
land.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>At the clubs I've belonged to you were not allowed
to fly without an instructor present and within arms reach until you proved your
ability to takeoff, fly the pattern and few different maneuvers (various
depending on the club) and land your plane. If you botched it you did not fly
solo out of safety concerns for those around you. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think its great that a father and son can go out
to a meet and compete together but why not spend a little time teaching him how
to take off and land as well? Is it for fear of breaking an expensive toy?
I've seen enough damage from 40 size trainers visited on people. I shudder to
think what a big gasser would do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I do have to ask one question:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How did the pilot get so comfortable flying in the
wind if they didn't take off and land in it?</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=gfowler@raytheon.com href="mailto:gfowler@raytheon.com">Gray E
Fowler</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 19, 2006 4:05</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Sportsman
supplemental rules?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Jim</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>I am IMAC ignorant, but for RC in general where
we all started, it appears to me that IMAC has a basic flaw in their
competition approach. Good enough to compete (gotta have the big ole plane
right?) but not good enough to land. </FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>I am not speaking as a pattern dude, just as an RCer.
As matter of fact, in my AMA club we actually have a rule that NO large scale
plane/pilot can fly without passing qualifications set by other designated
large scale club members. Last time I looked landing was one of the
qualifications.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>Am I nuts or is "I
can waterfall but I cannot land" just crazy?</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2>I would reccomend just switchin to a P-51
trainer.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radome and Composites
Engineering<BR>Raytheon</FONT> <BR><BR><BR>
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<TD width="40%"><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><B>"Jim Woodward"
<jim.woodward@schroth.com></B> </FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=1>Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>06/19/2006 02:33 PM</FONT>
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<DIV align=center><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Please respond
to<BR>NSRCA Mailing List
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></FONT></DIV></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></P>
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<DIV align=right><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>To</FONT></DIV>
<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>"'NSRCA Mailing List'"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></FONT>
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<DIV align=right><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>cc</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV align=right><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Subject</FONT></DIV>
<TD><FONT face=sans-serif size=1>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Sportsman
supplemental rules?</FONT></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
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<TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><BR><BR><FONT face=Arial
color=#000080 size=2>Gray,</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial color=#000080
size=2> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Your words
below were my reaction before flying IMAC. My gut feeling hasn’t changed
about it, but on the other hand, the IMAC equipment and competitors are
different and I believe would have the following take (IMAC folks correct me
if I’m off base): </FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>1.
</FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Allowing
others to land the plane encourages fathers to bring their younger sons to the
contest and let them compete. There is a higher amount of kids (young
kids) flying IMAC than pattern. However, there is also a larger
kid-factor present when the final placing is announced. Kids typically
score well in IMAC, and place high too.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=2>2. </FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000080
size=2>Knocking out the gear in an IMAC plane is very real possibility any
time you land. One second of misjudged airspeed or decent, and the gear
is coming out with damage to the fuse. Not to mention potentially
ruining a $130+ CF prop.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>3.
</FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Repairing the
plane is not in line with the “have-fun” focus of a lot of the competitors.
So a rule is in place that in many minds must allow for increased
participation, less damage to expensive equipment, less ego damage too.
It takes several people to cart off an IMAC plane once the gear is out.
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>4.
</FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>$$$ A lot of folks are
flying planes 2 – 4 times more expensive than a pattern plane. There is
more overall concern related to equipment health. Planes are twice as
big, but 5 times easier to damage on landing than a pattern plane.
</FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2>5.
</FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Note: A lot of the
pattern landings I’ve seen would definitely (seriously) damage an IMAC plane.
But the pattern pilot can bounce 3-5 times and it like nothing happened
to the plane (lucky for us). </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial color=#000080
size=2> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Again, I’m all
for scoring landings in pattern. It sounds like from Ed’s post there is
a class limit in IMAC for which classes allow alternate lander(s). I’m
just offering a different perspective from the IMAC experience this
year.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2> </FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>Jim W.</FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial
color=#000080 size=2> </FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial color=#000080
size=2> </FONT>
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</DIV><BR><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Gray E
Fowler<B><BR>Sent:</B> Monday, June 19, 2006 3:11 PM<B><BR>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<B><BR>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Sportsman supplemental
rules?</FONT> <BR><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><BR>Wow! I find it hard to believe that someone
would own and fly a plane that they in essence cannot land. That is a
beginners mistake and I see it alot at my club, and we call it "Too much
plane for the pilot". Usually this happens with a persons second airplane of
his RC career, not someone at a competition. We all bung a landing now and
then ( as if evident for the constant need of replacement chin cowls) , but I
have to seriously question that if at a contest a pilot cannot land a plane
they brought, should it be allowed? If it is too much plane for the
pilot, the pilot need to step down his plane or learn to land it in PRACTICE,
before his thumbs are shakin' at a contest.</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><BR>I will once again cast
another vote to score T/O and Landings knowing the odds are in my favor that
"others" will not a second time sneek around the majority to enact personal
agendas-but thats a differnet topic......</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> <BR></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><BR>When flying RC planes of
ANY type there are only two required manuevers...T/O and then
Landing.</FONT><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray Fowler<BR>Senior Principal
Chemical Engineer<BR>Radome and Composites Engineering<BR>Raytheon</FONT><FONT
size=2><TT>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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