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<DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure exactly when, but Castle stopped recommending "burst" ratings some time ago for the majority of their ESCs (exception being some LMR stuff) and now only lists continuous ratings.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The difficulty with specifying ratings (especially burst) for ESCs, lipos, and motors is in the great number of variables in the electric system as a whole. 2 nearly identical systems can put very different loads on the ESC allowing one to run perfectly fine and cool, while the other may burn up -</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>- throttle usage (duration and frequency of "bursts" and average "cruise" power),</DIV>
<DIV>- flying style (ie, do you spin down at idle or flat spin down at 50% power),</DIV>
<DIV>- cooling air,</DIV>
<DIV>- servo draw (for the most part, the cheap ones draw more current for the same performance),</DIV>
<DIV>- linkage binding, mechanical advantage of servos,</DIV>
<DIV>- overpropping the motor,</DIV>
<DIV>- undersizing the lipo,</DIV>
<DIV>- quality of connectors and wiring (length),</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For the above reasons, setups that venture into the "burst" range should be done very cautiously - I generally do initial flights on smaller props that do not exceed the continuous ratings, and then I incrementally add prop until I see signs of reaching limits. And continuous ratings are no guarantee either if parts of the system are mismatched.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One of the biggest things that heats up a controller is low input voltage - the higher the load on the battery, the more the input voltage fluctuates, and the harder the ESC has to work. Systems that may show impressive static power off the charger may not work well in the air if the lipo and/or motor are overloaded - as the voltage in the lipo rapidly drops and heat rapidly builds in both the motor and lipo resulting in low voltage and the ESC having to work very hard.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Unsoldering is quite hot and indicates something is not in spec and operating inefficiently.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave Lockhart</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV>Team JR</DIV>
<DIV>Team Castle Creations</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Michael Laggis" <fishgod@pobox.mtaonline.net> <BR><BR>> But if you are pulling 29 to 39 amps with the motor and 3+ amps on the BEC <BR>> you are above spec. With electrics the only way to be in the ball park is <BR>> motocalc or programs like it. Then to verify a watt meter to read real <BR>> world stats. <BR>> <BR>> I myself never trust running in the "Burst" range either with my batteries <BR>> or my electronics. If you had an older version Phoenix they were only rated <BR>> for 3 servos. <BR>> <BR>> I do have to agree that the over limit should have caught it and shut the <BR>> motor down. From my understanding Castle is very good to deal with. <BR>> <BR>> Michael <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> [
mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean Funk <BR>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 7:47 AM <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Brio 10 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I agree with Jay, <BR>> <BR>> I was using a smaller motor with the storm, a very reputable electric flight <BR>> hobbyshop sold me all this stuff and justified it with the same "25A <BR>> continuous and 35A surge" statement.... saying I should be fine and go fly <BR>> it... NOT <BR>> <BR>> I don't think it's the hobbyshops fault as we both read the specs and <BR>> thought it was a good set-up- <BR>> <BR>> regardless - it's all history now..... and maybe a lesson learned on my <BR>> end... <BR>> <BR>> I got a waste can full on these little planes ; ) <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --- Jay Marshall <LIGHTFOOT@SC.RR.COM>wrote: <BR>> <BR>> > It is rated at 2
5A continuous and 35A surge. The programming <BR>> > instructions says that the "Current Limiting" at the standard setup <BR>> > (used) will provide "moderate over-current threshold, will shut down <BR>> > after a slight delay". The issue may be what is shut down. If it is <BR>> > just the motor, then good. If, however, it is the motor and BEC then <BR>> > very bad! In any case, I wouldn't expect any overheating with this <BR>> > protection enabled to the extent that it would melt the solder on the <BR>> > ICs. <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael <BR>> > Laggis <BR>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:12 AM <BR>> > To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Brio 10 <BR>> > <BR>> > What it sounds like to me is the Phoenix
25's are being used outside <BR>> > of spec. Following threads on RCGroups most of these setups for the <BR>> > brio are pulling in the high 20's to high 30 amp range. I believe <BR>> > most would be better off with a 35 or 40 amp speed controller. <BR>> > <BR>> > Michael <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean <BR>> > Funk <BR>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:44 AM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Brio 10 <BR>> > <BR>> > HI Jay, <BR>> > <BR>> > I had the same situation with the Phoenix 25 in a Quiet Storm. Had <BR>> > about 20 flights on it with no overheating and then on the last flight <BR>> > the ESC unsoldered it's self. Same result - at first my brain said - <BR>> > deadstick no problem
- then I realized just how dead my "sticks" <BR>> > where. as it plowed <BR>> > in.... <BR>> > <BR>> > aggghhhh! <BR>> > <BR>> > wondering if it's a manufacturing defect.... <BR>> > <BR>> > My little brio snap rolled to it's death this past saturday. I was <BR>> > doing a stall turn with a easy pull up from the down leg. <BR>> > Nothing hard or sharp. I <BR>> > was on low rates. I was just feeding in elevator while slowly <BR>> > advancing the throttle. and whammm, a couple quick snaps to the right <BR>> > and well, slamm.... <BR>> > <BR>> > I really feel like I have no luck with these little electrics. I am <BR>> > thinking about selling all the electric junk - oh - I mean stuff that <BR>> > I own.... <BR>> > Besides that they fly like small toy airplanes and I don't feel they <BR>> > help me much as a practice pattern plane anyhow. <BR>> > <BR>> > I get m
ore out of Aerofly sim for practice. <BR>> > <BR>> > good luck to anyone with the little Brio - lots of hype there. I was <BR>> > really dispointed right from the first flight - not great performance <BR>> > here - I had about 10 flights on her. and thought that the Quite Storm <BR>> > was a much better plane that flew more like a bigger plane than the <BR>> > little brio. <BR>> > <BR>> > The Brio seems to fly like it's about 6 oz over weight even at 32 <BR>> > oz.... <BR>> > <BR>> > I guess I am going to put up a garage sale on RCU, I've got a couple <BR>> > of Tourque outrunners, 45 amp Airboss ESC, a couple of 2100 packs and <BR>> > charger, <BR>> > 8 micro servos etc.... <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > --- Jay Marshall <LIGHTFOOT@SC.RR.COM>wrote: <BR>> > <BR>> > > Lost my Brio 10. I was using a Castle Creation's <BR>> > Phoenix 25 ESC wh
ich <BR>> > > was programmed to 25A. Regardless, it overheated, <BR>> > the surface mount <BR>> > > integrated circuits became unsoldered, and the BEC <BR>> > shut down. I was in <BR>> > > the 3rd quarter of a loop. The rest is history. <BR>> > The motor was shut <BR>> > > down but a 90 down dive destroyed the front end <BR>> > anyway. I had flown it <BR>> > > three times before and checked the temp after each <BR>> > flight. It was <BR>> > > barely warm to the fingertip. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > -----Original Message----- <BR>> > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <BR>> > On Behalf Of Larry <BR>> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:09 AM <BR>> > > To: patternrules@earthlink.net; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Brio 10 <BR>> > &g
t; <BR>> > > When the BEC causes the esc to shut down, its <BR>> > because the esc is over <BR>> > > heating. Normally it shuts down the whole works - <BR>> > including the <BR>> > > throttle channel - because the RX has no power. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Did he have throttle control but no roll/pitch/yaw <BR>> > control or did the <BR>> > > motor just continue to run on its own? <BR>> > > <BR>> > > It could have been a case where the esc shut down <BR>> > power to the rx, but <BR>> > > there <BR>> > > <BR>> > > was a slight delay (1 to 3 seconds IIRC) before <BR>> > the power to the motor <BR>> > > got cut off. That's the way Castle (and several <BR>> > others) esc's usually <BR>> > > work. When <BR>> > > <BR>> > > the signal is lost from the rx throttle channel, <BR>> > the esc will wait a <BR>> > > bi
t, incase its just a glitch, then it shuts off <BR>> > the motor. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Not all esc's have that feature tho. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > You can test how your system responds to a loss of <BR>> > signal by starting <BR>> > > the plane at idle speed and turn off your tx. The <BR>> > motor should shut <BR>> > > down after a <BR>> > > <BR>> > > few seconds at most. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > This will be dependent on the RX as well - if your <BR>> > rx has failsafe <BR>> > > programming, the tx off test may give different <BR>> > results depending on <BR>> > > how its <BR>> > > <BR>> > > programmed and if it has a throttle failsafe <BR>> > setting. If the rx has a <BR>> > > throttle failsafe programmed - then the only way <BR>> > to test the esc is to <BR>> > > unplug the throttle lead while the motor i
s <BR>> > running. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > What servos was he running and what voltage was <BR>> > the pack and which <BR>> > > esc? <BR>> > > <BR>> > > I have run 4 servos on 1.5 amp bec's for years and <BR>> > never had any <BR>> > > issues. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Larry <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > > From: "Steven Maxwell" <BR>> > <PATTERNRULES@EARTHLINK.NET><BR>> > > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> > > <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:44 PM <BR>> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Brio 10 <BR>> > > <BR>> > > <BR>> > > > We had a Prodigy go in a couple of weeks ago <BR>> > > because of a 1.5 amp bec <BR>> > > > runner 4 servos had to send in for upgrade to <BR>> > the <
BR>> > > 3 amp, the weird thing <BR>> > > > is <BR>> > > > the motor kept runner just no control, you think <BR>> > > esc design would cut the <BR>> > > > motor first for safety. <BR>> > > > <BR>> > > > Steven Maxwell <BR>> > <BR>> === message truncated === <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> __________________________________________________ <BR>> Do You Yahoo!? <BR>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>> http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </BLOCKQUOTE></body>
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