<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE>v\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
o\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
w\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
.shape {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML)
}
</STYLE>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="country-region"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"></o:SmartTagType>
<STYLE>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</STYLE>
<STYLE>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Lucida Sans";
panose-1:2 11 6 2 3 5 4 2 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY lang=EN-US id=MailContainerBody
style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; PADDING-TOP: 15px; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Lucida Sans; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; TEXT-DECORATION: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none"
vLink=blue link=blue leftMargin=0 topMargin=0 name="Compose message area"
acc_role="text" CanvasTabStop="true"><!--[gte IE 5]><?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->
<DIV>
<DIV>Ya, imagine that.... One thing that no one has addressed
is the fact that eliminating the weight limit will have some bearing
on the flying quality of the airplane. I'll give an example. I built
an Electric Impact. Came out right at the weight limit. Wow, it flew
really slow and soft. That's all fine and well, except that when you go to
knife edge, the fuse wouldn't support the weight and it started falling out
of the sky. So, here we go, right back to more speed to create the lift
needed for rolling manuevers. There goes some of the benefits of slower
flight. It wasn't quite as bad as it sounds, but if it weighed twelve
pounds, I'd be flying around at full throttle. If it weighed half a pound
less, it would work fine. This is precisely what everyone is going to find
as we venture into the lack of a max weight limit. You can't change
anything on a given plane without affecting something else. It's just a
law of physics.... So, I guess I have to ask. Where are we going with
this? I don't really care if there's a weight limit or not, as long as it
doesn't cause some safety problems. I'm still going to build as light as I
can. Next thing you know, we'll have to have a different plane for
each weather condition. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rex</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>---- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=mailto:davel322@comcast.net href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">Dave
Lockhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 14, 2006 8:08 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“Bigger” and more
complex planes = more cost….hmmmmm…<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><BR>Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Rex LESHER<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:03
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on"><A title=mailto:chad@f3acanada.org
href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</A></st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight
limits for electrics?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans'">The only
thing I've seen that stopped the spread of the Double Vision, was the
cost. $2600 for the kit was a bit extreme. Then you have to build
it. Especially when you have all the ready made planes available for
about half that price. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans'">Hey
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Chad</st1:place></st1:country-region>, See you at the DAM next
weekend.... Looking forward to it. Looks like we'll bring 4-6
flyers up for it...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans'">Rex<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=mailto:chad@f3acanada.org href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">Chad
Northeast</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Sunday, May 14,
2006 7:44 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for
electrics?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans'">Lest we
not forget that bipes placed 2nd and 4th at the 2005 World
<BR>Champs......they are not everywhere....yet....increasing the weight
<BR>limit will only open the door for their
development.<BR><BR><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Chad</st1:place></st1:country-region><BR><BR><A
title=mailto:jivey61@bellsouth.net
href="mailto:jivey61@bellsouth.net">jivey61@bellsouth.net</A>
wrote:<BR><BR>> Dave<BR>> I agree and didn't Chip do this and it
didn't take hold and stay <BR>> around for long.<BR>> Jim
Ivey<BR>><BR>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>> *From:* Dave Lockhart <<A
title=mailto:davel322@comcast.net
href="mailto:davel322@comcast.net">mailto:davel322@comcast.net</A>><BR>>
*To:* '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>' <<A
title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>
*Sent:* Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:19 PM<BR>>
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for
electrics?<BR>><BR>> Yes they are a PIA and I
don’t want to spend the extra time
either.<BR>><BR>> IMAC essentially has no
limits, excepting the AMA 55 lb limit<BR>> which
is not really a factor.<BR>><BR>> Bigger flies
better, period. If an IMAC guy went through the
fuss<BR>> to build the monstrous bipe with
wingspan similar to the big<BR>> monoplanes, it
would be “bigger” and it would fly better. No
one<BR>> wants to deal with that hassle and
expense.<BR>><BR>> A 2M bipe is bigger than a
2M monoplane. The 2M being bigger will<BR>> fly
better, period. And it will be more expense and it will
result<BR>> in some number of current day pattern
competitors leaving the event.<BR>><BR>>
Regards,<BR>><BR>><BR>> Dave
Lockhart<BR>><BR>> <A
title=mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A><BR>><BR>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>>
*From:* <A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf
Of<BR>> *Robert
Mairs<BR>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:26
PM<BR>> *To:* <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><BR>> *Subject:* Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for
electrics?<BR>><BR>> I don't buy into the bipe
theory. Bipes are a PIA. I wouldn't want<BR>> to
spend a half hour setting up and tearing down every day I
went<BR>> out flying. If bipes are so dominating
why don't you see them on<BR>> the IMAC circuit?
They don't have any size or weight
restrictions<BR>> and they strive for the same
type performance we do, yet they're a<BR>>
rarity. They're nice to see and may show up, but a flight
line<BR>> full of bipes, I doubt
it.<BR>><BR>> -----
Original Message
-----<BR>><BR>>
*From:* Stuart Chale <<A title=mailto:schale@optonline.net
href="mailto:schale@optonline.net">mailto:schale@optonline.net</A>><BR>><BR>>
*To:* '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName>'<BR>>
<<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>><BR>>
*Sent:* Sunday, May 14, 2006 8:57
PM<BR>><BR>>
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for
electrics?<BR>><BR>>
Any time a limit has been relaxed; there has been a change
in<BR>> airplane size and
or design. It is not necessarily
immediate<BR>> but
technology seems to adapt to the new limits. Just try
to<BR>> fly one of your
2M designs with a piped 60, or even a 120
4C.<BR>> When 4C limits
were increased to 1.2 cubic inches
nothing<BR>> changed.
Some brave folks tried 4C but it didn’t work until
YS<BR>> came out with a
4C engine that was more powerful than a 60
2C<BR>> engine. Then the
planes took a step larger and heavier.
When<BR>> the engine
limit was removed planes got larger again. 120
AC<BR>> engines were now
only good for the beginner classes.
(An<BR>>
oversimplification). Right now the weight limit works. Yes
it<BR>> is a bit harder
to make a 2M pattern plane come in under 5
kg<BR>> when made
electric but it can be done. A gas engine 2M may
be<BR>> even more
difficult. Relaxing the weight limit will make
it<BR>> easier for an
electric conversion to make weight and make
a<BR>> gas powered
version more feasible. But new designs will
now<BR>> show up pushing
the new limits. The obvious direction is a 2
M<BR>> bipe. A 14 pound 2
M bipe may present better than a
monoplane,<BR>> maybe
not. If it does then everyone will “need” or at
least<BR>> want one. If
people want to try something new and bigger
then<BR>> scrap the
weight limit. If not then relaxing the weight
limit<BR>> to fit today’s
problems will have undesirable effects tomorrow
J<BR>><BR>> Stuart
Chale<BR>><BR>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>>
*From:* <A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] *On
Behalf<BR>> Of <A
title=mailto:*vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:*vicenterc@comcast.net">*vicenterc@comcast.net</A><BR>>
*Sent:* Sunday, May 14, 2006 8:06
PM<BR>> *To:*
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing List</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName><BR>>
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits for
electrics?<BR>><BR>> I
understood that the definition of model airplane states
that<BR>> weigh has to be
below 5 Kg. That is consider
international.<BR>> The
only exception is the scale that is a little higher. I
am<BR>> not sure if this
single reason is going to make difficult
to<BR>> change the rule
for F3A. For sure is going to help the
gas<BR>> engines. I don't
think electric power plants are having
a<BR>> weigh
problem.<BR>><BR>>
Vicente
Bortone<BR>><BR>>
-------------- Original message
--------------<BR>>
From: "John Ferrell" <<A title=mailto:johnferrell@earthlink.net
href="mailto:johnferrell@earthlink.net">johnferrell@earthlink.net</A>><BR>><BR>>
Yummy! Big Biplanes are coming in
quantity!<BR>><BR>>
John Ferrell
W8CCW<BR>>
"My Competition is not my
enemy"<BR>>
<A title=http://dixienc.us/ href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A>
<<A title=http://dixienc.us/
href="http://dixienc.us/">http://dixienc.us/</A>><BR>><BR>>
----- Original Message
-----<BR>><BR>>
*From:* Bdrtschiger
Urs<BR>>
<<A title=mailto:baertschiger-tai@bluewin.ch
href="mailto:baertschiger-tai@bluewin.ch">mailto:baertschiger-tai@bluewin.ch</A>><BR>><BR>>
*To:* <st1:PersonName w:st="on">NSRCA Mailing
List</st1:PersonName><BR>>
<<A title=mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>><BR>>
*Sent:* Sunday, May 14, 2006 5:17
AM<BR>><BR>>
*Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] weight limits
for<BR>>
electrics?<BR>><BR>>
This subject has been adressed officially. Based
on<BR>>
what I have been told, the weight limit for F3A
will<BR>>
be dropped with the next rules changes. What
will<BR>>
remain however, is the 2M by 2M
box.<BR>><BR>>
Urs<BR>><BR>>
NSRCA #3069<BR>><BR>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing
list<BR>> <A
title=mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
<A title=http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>><BR>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> <A
title=mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
<A title=http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>><BR>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
title=http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BODY></HTML>