<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Mar 26, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Bill Glaze wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV><FONT face="Arial">The FAI and Masters seem rather pro forma, and do the procedure turn. Those of us in the great unwashed classes have also been utilizing this, but quite a few contestants take off, proceed straight out, and execute a humpty-bump or a 1/2 Cuban for a turnaround to the "trim pass."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial">This also allows the caller to jog back to the line, burning a few calories, and staying in shape, thereby not arriving so out of breath that he is unable to call the first few figures for his pilot.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial">Or, if your caller is the athletic type, then Don Ramsay has simplified it: Simply take off, make a 180 deg. turn, and head directly downwind. Fast, simple, easy to do, easy to judge, (Take off is complete when airplane passes center pole downwind). You can then extend the down-wind leg, turning only when your out-of-breath caller joins you and stops panting. It's totally non-critical.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Geez! I am getting the idea that a lot of callers can't get back to their calling station in time without running and be panting when they get there, unless the pilot does a Procedure Turn in lieu of a 180 degree turn. I am no spring chicken, but I have no problem getting to the calling station without panting. Maybe some of us need to lose a little weight. <VBG></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Another point: There has been a lot of discussion that many of you want to see takeoff and landing scored in 1/2 points, rather than 0 or 10. It's fine to carry on discussion about the subject here on the NSRCA Discussion List. However, I must assume that everyone who feels that way will also contact their AMA district's contest board member and express their opinion. Board members often complain after a vote that they received ZERO input from their constituents, so they voted the way they felt was right.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Ron Van Putte<BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title="jpavlick@idseng.com" href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:13 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] rookie judge</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="390281221-26032006"><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">So.... how did we do it 3 years ago? :)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="390281221-26032006"><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="390281221-26032006"><P><FONT size="2">John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com" target="_blank">http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir="ltr" style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Ferrell<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 26, 2006 2:07 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] rookie judge<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">The procedure turn allows time for the caller to get back to the pilot station in time to enter the box.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>John Ferrell <BR><A href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title="natpenton@centurytel.net" href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:50 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] rookie judge</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">John</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">I agree the procedure turn is a time and fuel waster. Someone said it was incorporated to prevent hotdogging. I have occasionally flown the procedure turn in knife edge since it is not a violation of the rules. I think a prescribed 180 after TO would be just as effective in eliminating hotdogging.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2"></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Arial" size="2">One advantage of he procedure turn is that it gives a long trim pass. This is seldom needed, however and I think saving judge time is more important. Nat</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title="jpavlick@idseng.com" href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John Pavlick</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 25, 2006 7:07 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] rookie judge</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">My understanding of the reason why we now score T.O. and landing as "0" OR "10" was to save time (?) and make the judges job easier (???). Well, last season we spent a lot of time at pilot's meetings talking about how to "0" something that didn't fit the rulebook description. Or when exactly do we call "Takeoff complete"? It was silly. The judges still need to watch the Entire takeoff and landing sequence so again, what's the point. If you wanted to save time on T.O. - don't do the freaking procedure turn. Takeoff, turn 180 downwind, check trim, turn around and get in the box. If you're a judge, assume that if it got into the box it did so while conforming to the "rules". "10" - Done. The procedure turn is cool and it looks great, but it takes more time to do, AND you spend more time in the overlapping region of the other flight line (depending on the wind direction and which line you're on of course). If you're going to go through all of that, then you should at least get a good score for doing it well. Just my opinion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2"></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff" size="2">Also funny how now that electric is becoming more popular, we're relaxing the rules about the airplane standing still before the takeoff roll. Pretty soon it won't even matter - well, it will for some of us...</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"><P><FONT size="2">John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com" target="_blank">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT> </P></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"></SPAN><FONT face="Tahoma"><FONT size="2"><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"><FONT face="Arial" color="#0000ff"></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Tahoma"><FONT size="2"><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Tahoma"><FONT size="2"><SPAN class="260014800-26032006"> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Stuart Chale<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 25, 2006 9:12 AM<BR><B>To:</B> 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] rookie judge<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face="Tahoma"><FONT size="2"></FONT></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE dir="ltr" style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class="Section1"><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yes, it definitely took some skill to get the plane to rotate and stay on the ground with the nose gear off the ground before smoothly taking off. Same for the landing with the nose gear up for a bit on rollout.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Anyone know the thinking behind 0 to 10? Seems that flying judged on precision would not include a perfect score on a takeoff just jerked into the sky.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Stuart<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align="center"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabindex="-1" align="center" width="100%" size="2"> </SPAN></FONT></DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B><A href="mailto:GSailwhale@aol.com">GSailwhale@aol.com</A><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:41 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] rookie judge</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size="3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="black" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If we go back to judging takeoffs and landings, then I can go back to tricycle gear and retracts......cool!!!!!<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV> <DIV><P class="MsoNormal"><FONT face="Arial" color="black" size="2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Greg G<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.6/257 - Release Date: 2/10/2006<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.<BR>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.6/257 - Release Date: 2/10/2006<BR><DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV> <BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><HR><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>