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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is this the VP30 pump that is being experimented
with? I have had great results with this on several OS 1.60's, but it does
require that you reduce the pump pressure by at least two turns. Also, the
low end needle needs to be leaned alot, usually about 2 turns to start
with. I haven't had any issues with mid range at all after fine tuning
from these as starting points and it holds up very well over time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 05, 2006 8:13
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fuel
Regulation in 2C Engines</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>John:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for your advice. I already worked the prop. The best I
found is the 3 blade re-pitched. I just want to improve it more.
Probably very difficult task base on the feedback I am getting.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I like your idea to tune the return line. I have been thinking to
go that route with a Perry external needle valve in the return line. The
process would be, in the OS 160, to adjust the return needle valve until the
high end needle valve is about 2.5 turns open at full power. That is the
normal setting when I run the engine with no pump. In this way, we
will be close to the original design pressure. Normally, the OS 160 with
the Perry pump sets within 1 to 1.5 turns open. Than means
that the pressure is too high. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente</DIV>
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style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "John Pavlick"
<jpavlick@idseng.com> <BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=990502921-05032006>Yeah, I tend to agree with Nat here. After
some discussion about the Perry loop idea, I know someone who actually
tried it. It came down to the theory vs. reality thing i.e. "only one way to
find out..." It seemed like a good idea, but it didn't seem to work on our
big motors. I think that in order for this to work properly, you would need
a pump that is capable of way more volume AND pressure than you need. In
addition to this, the regulator should be an external device, not inside the
pump like the way it is with a VP-30, or the internal regualtor needs to
have an eaxternal "return" line. This is how a fuel-injected automotive
system works, so it is possible. The Perry loop thing works for R/C cars and
smaller motors but I think the pump needs more volume to feed our big
motors with that big gaping "hole" in the system (the return loop). Maybe
tuning the size of the return loop wi! th a restrictor would be worth a
try. Is it worth the effort? Generally a VP-30 that is properly adjusted
will give reliable performance with just a vent line and no tank pressure /
no return loop. Props have a big effect on what happens when you return to
idle too. If you want to help downline braking, look at props before you
spend a lot of time re-designing the fuel system. Also, try setting the idle
a little bit richer. The slow transition to idle condition is sometimes
aggravated by a lean idle mixture. Not trying to discredit anyone's
theories, just passing along some of my
observations.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=990502921-05032006></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=990502921-05032006>
<P><FONT size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A href="http://www.idseng.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.idseng.com</A><BR> </FONT>
</P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Nat
Penton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:48 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fuel Regulation in
2C Engines<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Diaphram operated fuel pumps made by OS (
Hanno, 140 RX, 91 SH <Perry?>) are self regulating in that output is
proportional to RPM, proportional to need. These pumps can be adapted to
any 90 to 160 two stroke with JB Weld and without maching skills. The tank
is vented and there is no pressure in the system.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have had impeccable performance using these
pumps on the OS91FX for the last four years. I believe the logic in the
circulating systems is
flawed.
Nat</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ;
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Fuel Regulation in 2C Engines</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Brian,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You got it right. In the OS 160 we would like to set up the
pressure in the header before the carb as close as possible to the
original design (muffler pressure with tank close to firewall). In
this way, the carburetor metering system will work as was originally
designed. I will be doing some test and see what will work
better. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The expert at Perry recommended to send the overflow to the
tank. However, I agree that loop around the fuel pump could work
since that is one old method to control pressure in industrial
pumps. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: brian young
<brian_w_young@yahoo.com> <BR>
<DIV>So I guess the thinking behind doing this is that you
deliver the fuel to the carb and its there for the carb to take. But
the fuel at the carb nipple will only be under atmospheric pressure
(since the tanks vented), anything extra is free to go back to the
tank. The venturi affect of the carb will draw the fuel into the carb.
I dont see why you would need to go clear back to the tank, just loop
around the pump. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This sounds like it could take the variability of pumps out of
the equation and at the same time let the pump deliver fuel to the
carb, but not push fuel into the carb.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Interesting.<BR><BR><B><I>Wayne Galligan
<wgalligan@texasairnet.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vincent,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>! <FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I wonder if this "T" setup would work
on an OS 1.40. I already use the check valve in the vent so a
couple of "T's" and maybe I would be in business. Would you
have to change the pump pressure?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne Galligan</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent! :</B> Sunday, March 05,
2006 8:19 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Fuel Regulation in 2C Engines</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Good morning all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have been using the OS 160, OS 140 RX and Mintor 140 with
good results in the last 4-5 years. We have been comparing
and discussing the advantages of YS compared with 2C.
One of the main advantages of YS is that in transition when power
down the engine goes instantly to 2000 RPM or less. The 2C
engines always takes too much time to get down to idle and I
believe that causes us (in pattern) some
problems. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have been thinking that the problem is that the carburetor
and or fuel system that can not regulate properly (pressure or
flow). I think in these engines, the pumps are set to
deliver fuel at full flow (or pressure) without any
regulation system (like the YS). ! I had the opportunity to
discuss this issue with Perry Pump and they recommended to install
a by-pass line. The idea is to send the excess fuel
(pressure) back to the tank during transition. Perry Pump
recommended to install the T as close as possible to the
carburetor needle valve. Also in their web site they have an
idea that he said is used for cars that is a by-pass line that
loop around the pump (<A
href="http://www.perrypumps.com/instructions.htm"
target=_blank>http://www.perrypumps.com/instructions.htm</A>,
Click on Pump and By-Pass Systems). I think the ideas
deserve some checking since it is natural to have this type of
regulation to maintain constant pre! ! ss! ure in the line
before needle valve. I tried the other day the by-pass
to the carburetor but I installed the T too far from the
carburetor and forgot to open the vent in the tank. Of
course the results were bad since I was developing vacuum in
the tank. I wi! ll try these options of by-pass lines as
soon as get warmer. However, I think someone out there
already tried to do this and know results so I am looking for feed
back.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></WMFILTERED></DIV>
<DIV>
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