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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Try a 1 roll circle and a 1 roll loop with any
current design in say 1998 (save an EMC) - and try them in that order or you'll
never get to try the 1 roll loop. With any design, try a flat rudder turn
circle, then try a KE loop. The circle stuff is far less demanding of the
airframe.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yes, the circles can be done smaller and it is
harder to do them smaller - try doing a small rolling loop - you will run out of
rudder authority and KE power and see far more coupling issues come out sooner
trying the small rolling loop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=geobet@gis.net href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">George Kennie</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 03, 2006 1:42
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Noise -
Overfly -and DifferentAerobatic Model Types</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I don't feel that the rolling loop involves the same degree of
difficulty as the circle. When you do the circle, and especially when there is
a roll reversal required, the skill required to preserve arc geometry,
altitude, roll rate, and corrective inputs is greater than the same
requirements when incorporated into the loop. The loop is performed closer and
is easier to see and can be performed also very large making required
corrections more visible.There is also the ability to utilize the gravity
assist which you can employ to slow the up-side and allow to assist some of
your control inputs on the backside. <BR>It is also possible to do the circle
much smaller than currently being done, however, control input requirements
become much quicker and more extreme and it's much easier to get behind which
is why you see them being performed so large,........it's just to slow things
down enough to keep up with the compensation requirements. It requires a lot
of repetitive exercise to train the brain's ability to accomodate the
compensatory acceleration requirement to execute the smaller geometric
form. <BR>Try a few and you'll see what I mean. <BR>Georgie
<P>Dean Pappas wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE">
<STYLE></STYLE>
<SPAN class=090044414-03032006><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=-1>I have suggested it, back before the new year, and I'll do it
again.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=090044414-03032006><FONT
face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=-1>Dean</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> <FONT
face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><SPAN
class=090044414-03032006><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=-1>Excerpted from
Earl's reply:</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr><SPAN
class=090044414-03032006></SPAN></DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>Dean
/ Bob</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=Arial><FONT size=-1>You're both right
on regarding noise footprint. Probably the biggest issue with the large
gassers, and not necessarily IMAC.<SPAN class=090044414-03032006><FONT
color=#0000ff> ...</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> <FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=-1>Along comes a competition flyer practicing rollers and he becomes
the example that the distance is OK, and enforcement becomes even more
difficult. I agree that rollers are neat maneuvers and that they
simply don't fit within the "smaller footprint" concept. Dean, I like your
proposal that they be replaced with rolling loops - keeps the complexity
and solves the distance problem. Have you suggested this to Bob Skinner
(F3A Subcommittee Chair)? We're our own worst enemy - rollers can be
flown much tighter, but no one does that - no wow factor! My alerts that
the pattern rules don't provide a distance exception for rollers only
resulted in a quasi exception.</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=-1>Earl</FONT></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE><PRE><HR width="90%" SIZE=4>_______________________________________________
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