<html><body><P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can fly low slow and close in if you desire. The box that you fly in is smaller for pattern than IMAC. You get too close in and the box gets really small. The box is about the right size for a 2 meter at 150 to 170 Meters parallel to the flight line. You might be able to fly a 50 sized at 125 to 150 meters. At least I do.</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size=2>Randy<BR> <BR>--- "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot@sc.rr.com> wrote:<BR> <BR><B>From:</B> "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot@sc.rr.com><BR><B>Date:</B> Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:51:24 -0500<BR><B>To:</B> "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs Pattern Participation? Does the DogHunt on points made?<BR><BR></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’m new and saw my first contests last year. My first impression was “Why do they fly so high?” Then I wondered what would happen if I flew low, slow and close in with <SPAN class=GramE>a</SPAN> Oxalys 50? <SPAN class=GramE>Still wondering.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>mike mueller<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, March 02, 2006 2:14 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs Pattern Participation? Does the DogHunt on points made?</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> You know what, Keith is right. We have a really good flyer that comes to one of our contests about once a year. He flys his whole sequence right off the deck like a bat out of hell. He's really good and can pull it off. The deal excites everyone. It's a blast to watch. <BR><BR><B><I><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Keith Black <tkeithb@comcast.net></SPAN></I></B> wrote: <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Reading the comments here brings the following to my attention.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Loud "ballistic missile" pattern = Huge popularity.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Quite graceful pattern flying 150 m away = Boring.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Huge Loud IMAC planes flying 3D = Huge popularity.</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I bet if we add an "Extreme Pattern" class where we do high slow rolls and snaps ten feed off the deck right over the runway we'd become much more popular again. ;-)</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Keith Black</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message ----- <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com" target=_blank>Bob Richards</A> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target=_blank>NSRCA Mailing List</A> <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Thursday, Ma! rch 02, 2006 8:55 AM<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] IMAC Vs Pattern Participation? Does the DogHunt on points made?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Larry,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Good points.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">A little history, as best as I can remember it. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At one time, Pattern was the top of the heap. I remember the first RC Modeler magazine I bought (circa 1972) had coverage of the Masters competition. RC Modeler carried coverage of the large pattern contests back then. At some point (I don't remember when, exactly) RCM (aka Don Dewey) became ticked off at the AMA because AMA chose to publish their own magazine. This happened when American Aircraft Modeler magazine went out of business, they had been publishing the AMA News in the back of their magazine. It seemed to me that RCM no longer covered pattern events after that. There was a big push by RCM to promote the "Sport Flyers Associat! ion", anything AMA sanctioned was left out. (This was my observation).<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Along came the TOC, which actually started out with pattern models. Again, t! here was coverage. But, then the TOC went the scale aerobatics route (and extra points for biplanes, and extra points for mammoth planes -- the rest is history).<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Pattern is no longer the premiere event that it used to be. I think it all goes back to the WOW factor. There also seemed to be a period where pattern flyers were looked down upon, usually labeled "snobs". Thank goodnes that does not seem to be the case anymore.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I think the change from loud, ballistic missle type flying to the turnaround style now has changed the general modeling perception, although it took several years for the general modeling public to recognize the change. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">However, the turnaround format seems to have had both a positive and negati! ve effect. The general modeling public respects pattern more as a result, but it also SEEMS to be a barrier for new participants. Again, this is just my opinion.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bob R.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Lisa & Larry <lld613@psci.net></SPAN></I></B> wrote:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Eric Henderson wrote****</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> If we knew why we could probably fix it.<FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> ****<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From my viewpoint trying to get into pattern around 1999 was a major challenge.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I was first introduced to Pattern in <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on">Southern California</ST1:PLACE> in 1985 when I went to watch a contest. It took another 15 years to have the time and money to do it. For me lack of time was because of my service in the US Navy. Difficult to fly when your out at sea and they don’t fit too well in a locker on the ship…vbg<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">! It took me from 1999 to 2002 to find somebody that new what pattern was. Everyone new IMAC and could point me to a pilot that competed, but not Pattern.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What does this mean? Either I’m not a very smart cookie or Pattern is a very well kept secret (not much has changed since 1999). So how is it that a person that new pattern existed took the better part of 4 years to finally talk to someone that could help get started?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-S: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Over the last seven years we watched IMAC ARF’s take off and sell like hot cakes, only in the last couple years have we seen Pattern ARF’s on the market.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></SPAN>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I went to an RC Airshow north of <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on">Bloomington</ST1:CITY>, <ST1:STATE u1:st="on">IN</ST1:STATE></ST1:PLACE> around the spring of 2002. I watched a pilot fly an Extra for an! IMAC Sportsman Class Demo. I approached him and asked him about Pattern and how to get started. His response was clear, “Why would you want to fly a toy model plane when you can fly a model of a real plane and do the same thing!” Aside from an instant turn off from IMAC, it ! set the tone of perception between IMAC and Pattern. I will most likely start competing in IMAC this year as well as pattern. Mostly because there are more IMAC contests in a 5 hour drive than there are pattern from where I’m located.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you compare IMAC and Pattern I don’t think the dog hunts in most of the arguments I’ve seen posted in the last few years as they reappear from time to time. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list 1.0in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: Arial"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">1)<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">IMAC and Pattern planes compare in cost. (That dog won’t hunt on this point)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list 1.0in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: Arial"><SPAN style="mso-li: Ignore"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">2)<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">IMAC and Pattern take the same ! amount of practice time to be competitive in a given class. (That dog won’t hunt on this point)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list 1.0in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: Arial"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">3)<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">IMAC and Pattern meets are relatively the same driving distance for most. (That dog won’t hunt! on this point)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list 1.0in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: Arial"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">4)<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I can find more IMAC contests than Pattern contests (Dog might be tracking something on this one)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo2; tab-stops: list 1.0in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-fareast-font-family: Arial"><SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore">5)<FONT face="Times New Roman" size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sport pilots know more about IMAC than they do pattern, this is speculative but I believe it’s the case. (Dog might be tracking something on this one)<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We need to do a better job marketing Pattern. I think that IMAC has done great in this area. The TOC helped IMAC grow and get the word out through coverage of a big event. I think we can see a decline in IMAC since the last TOC. I have not seen or heard of a big contest that gets the publicity that the TOC received. Even the FAI World Pattern contest is not covered! as well as the TOC was.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">How do you guys view these points?<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Larry Diamond<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">PS…What Eric does for Pattern in his reporting to magazines is probably one of the key factors that he! lps pattern stay afloat. Thanks Eric….<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yahoo! Mail<BR>Bring photos to life! <A href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39174/*http:/photomail.mail.yahoo.com" target=_blank>New PhotoMail </A>makes sharing a breeze. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></FONT></body></html>