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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Comments below...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>John Ferrell <BR><A
href="http://DixieNC.US">http://DixieNC.US</A><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=divesplat@yahoo.com href="mailto:divesplat@yahoo.com">Ed Deaver</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 27, 2006 5:27
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern
Longitevity</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I agree with both of you. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> If we really wanted to open a can of worms here, how about flying
style, smooth and slow on rolls versus, fast and precise, both hitting
the points, and both functionally correct?? Both can be graceful if done
well. There shouldn't be a score difference but!!!!</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>***This is a problem with a lengthy rules cycle.
There should be an ammendment that says speed is not a scoring
issue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*** We won't remember this one when we finally
get to the ext opportunity.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>How about the size of maneuvers. I once saw an Intermediate pilot
with a 40 size plane make 3 very small, but on track-same size-same
heading-and ROUND loops that warranted a very high score but, you
know the story.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*** The video says we are not to grade on
airplane performance. The rule book refers to "filling the presentation area"
(I think). The ambiguity needs to be addressed. Same issue for stall turns. A
long vertical line performed by a high performance airplane should not out
score a shorter vertical line by a less powerful airplane.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>How about speed of the plane. THe current thinking is to fly very
slowly. Of course the current schedules are much busier than previous
patterns and slow does add more time to think and helps to stay in the box,
but I have been told for the past 4 years, slow down you'll score
better. To which I always said, judge the manu! ever and quality, not
the speed as its not in the rules. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>*** Speed is NOT a criteria in judging the maneuvers. HOWEVER, as long as
we allow AMA rules to mimic the unwritten FAI practices, we will be victims to
their whims.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Of course there is the complete opposite to this. In Lubbock, I
have zeroed 2 turnaround top hats because the pilot pushed the top and wasn't
inverted. The pilot both times said, I've done that at other contests
and no one said anything bad about it!! The rules are, regardless of
other topics of interest, crystal clear on this one. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*** The rule book is clear, it must be applied
unless there a special local rules in Lubbock!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>The list can go on and on. Education, fun and trying to fly the
best we know how is probably the most important aspect.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*** I fly for fun and it shows. My scores have
not mattered much to me for several years. I understand the problem for those
who are serious competitors. They spend a lot of resources to compete and good
judging is essiential to keep them on board. Otherwise it is a fly-in, not a
competition...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>ed<BR><BR><B><I>Lance Van Nostrand
<patterndude@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Talk about confused. Neither you! nor I
mentioned the Nats so I have no idea where that connection was made. I
really didn't think you had the answer to my question because in essence you
were asking the same thing. Sure, some planes draw nicer lines and
appear more stable and paced than others, and I agree that you can get this
without spending a lot of $$ or buying the plane of the season. I am
agreeing that when judges begin docking a pilot points because he didn't
bring the "right" plane then they are being impressionist judges. When
a guy that usually finishes middle of the pack gets a 2 point downgrade and
the leader does the same thing for a 1 point downgrade, that's impressionist
judging. At my last contest I got a 10 and a 5 from two FAI judges on
a humptybump. At least one, maybe both were impressionist
judging. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I think your post about pattern
longevity is about promoting the attitude that we should be encouragi! ng to
others and to curtail frustrating new pilots by giving them false rules to
follow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hope that makes it clear as mud :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob
Richards</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:47
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Pattern Longitevity</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Lance,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure what you meant by your reply, I was not complaining
about the judging at the Nats. I was just saying that there are pattern
fliers out there with the attitude that you have to have xyz equipment to
be competitive. Thats fine if they want to have that attitude, the problem
lies in the fact that they really believe it and spread it to others as
gospel. That, I am sure, puts some people off and keeps them from trying
pattern.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I always tell people that you don't need an expensive plane to be
competitve. Sure, a lot of people may say that to prospective pattern
flyers, but it doesn't look good when that person is flying very expensive
equipment. I'm proud of the fact that I practiced what I
preached, did very well while doing it, and had a lot of fun at the
same time.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think a $1000 composite airframe will be in my future any
time soon.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><!
DIV>Bob R.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Lance Van Nostrand
<patterndude@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so how do you get an "impressionist"
affected judge to be more objective? Seems that kind of person is
just the sort not interested in those pesky little things called
"rules". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob
Richards</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To! :</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 26, 2006
8:03 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Pattern Longitevity</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You say "the enemy is us". I agree. I feel compelled to share a
couple of my own experiences.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When I got started (seriously) in pattern, I did so with a Cap
21. I had several of the local pattern flyers (well meaning) tell me
that I would never get the scores I deserved flying a non-pattern
plane. If I had ever felt that was true, I would have dropped out of
pattern. I flew that plane for two years, in Advanced and Masters. I
did well, I won just over half the contests in which I flew, and
managed to win the district points championship in '92.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I decided to! fly a pattern plane in '93, and ended! up with a
Hansen Runaround. </DIV>
<DIV>For me, it was a big step up. However, it did not have a pipe
tunnel, and I decided to use a standard OS 1.20 with stock stubby
muffler for most of the season. I went to the '93 Nats with this
plane. I had problems in the early rounds, but for the fifth
round I flew t! he absolute best flight I have ever flown. I was
feeling great! About 30 minutes after I flew, a rain started that cut
short the flying that day. I had a large tent just behind the flight
line, so most of the judges and scribes ended up under my tent. One of
the scribes, a well known FAI flyer (that probably subscribes to this
list) looked at my plane and told me that I would never get the scores
I deserve, "flying an outdated design". I told him that I was very
pleased with the flight I just had, and he said "you did not
get good scores on that flight". I did not show it, but it just
ticked me off. I know it sounds like sour ! grapes, but I decided that
if I did no! t get good scores that round, I would quit pattern. I
ended up winning that round by 65 normalized points. Looking at the
tare sheets, I got great scores from all the judges that
round. Now, I don't like to use the phrase "pattern snob", but to this
day that is the opinion I have of that FAI flyer.</DIV!>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now I know that a very small percentage of the pattern flyers are
snobs, but they typically are the ones that are more vocal and more in
the limelight than others, unfortunately.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(climbing down off my soapbox).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
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