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<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hey
Bob,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
healthy schizophrenia you describe (judge's hat versus pilot's hat) is a
necessary part of being a good judge.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>For
example: I have a dearly held notion about what a proper flying style is ... at
least for me.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It
goes out the window, when I am in the chair. It must.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>We do
all tend to trip over our other left foot, when we make the
less-than-graceful change from one hat to the other. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>After
all, when you give someone advice, after having judged them the last round, are
you talking about what the pilot should show you, or what to do with the
sticks?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Funny,
I knew what you meant too!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=500160216-27022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Bob
Richards<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 27, 2006 10:48 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern
Longitevity<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Guys,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Let me set the record straight on this, it seems everyone is confused
about what I was originally trying to say.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I never said, and never felt, that there was impressionist judging
affecting my scores, either at local contests, or the Nats. When I flew badly,
my scores reflected it, and when I flew well, I got good scores. It did not
matter if I were flying an outdated design, a Cap 21, or even a Miss
Martha.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The only time I heard anyone say that I would not get the scores I
deserved (FUTURE TENSE) was when a fellow competitor was trying to give me
advice about what I should fly. Seems that when they were wearing the pilot's
hat, they felt equipment mattered (more than it should, anyway). I'm glad
they did not seem to feel that way when they were wearing the judge's
hat.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My point, that I was not able to eloquently convey, is that we,! as
pattern veterans, tend to leave the general modeling public with the
impression that the latest, most expensive equipment is needed to be
competitve. Even as we are trying to tell them that expensive equipment
is not needed, they are looking at what we bring to the field and say to
themselves, "Yeah, right!".</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Now, I am sure impressionist judging may exist, but I never felt like
I was a victim of it, regardless of what I was flying. Thank goodness!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><B><I><A
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<DIV>Those "i<FONT face=Arial size=2>impressionist </FONT> judges" need
to review the judging tape at least three times. As always, judge
education and training are the best approach.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Lance Van Nostrand"
<patterndude@comcast.net> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Talk about confused. Neither you nor I
mentioned the Nats so I have no idea where that connection was made.
I really didn't think you had the answer to my question because in essence
you were asking the same thing. Sure, some planes draw nicer lines
and appear more stable and paced than others, and I agree that you can get
this without spending a lot of $$ or buying the plane of the season.
I am agreeing that when judges begin docking a pilot points because he
didn't bring the "right" plane then they are being impressionist
judges. When a guy that usually finishes middle of the pack gets a 2
point downgrade and the leader does the same thing for a 1 point
downgrade, that's impressionist judging. At my last contest I got a
10 and a 5 from two FAI judges on a humptybump. At least one, maybe
both were impressionist judging. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I think your post about pattern
longevity is about promoting the attitude that we should be encouraging to
others and to curtail frustrating new pilots by giving them false rules to
follow.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hope that makes it clear as mud
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob
Richards</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 26, 2006
2:47 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Pattern Longitevity</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Lance,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure what you meant by your reply, I was not complaining
about the judging at the Nats. I was just saying that there are pattern
fliers out there with the attitude that you have to have xyz equipment
to be competitive. Thats fine if they want to have that attitude, the
problem lies in the fact that they really believe it and spread it to
others as gospel. That, I am sure, puts some people off and keeps them
from trying pattern.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I always tell people that you don't need an expensive plane to be
competitve. Sure, a lot of pe! ople may say that to prospective pattern
flyers, but it doesn't look good when that person is flying very
expensive equipment. I'm proud of the fact that I practiced what I
preached, did very well while doing it, and had a lot of fun at the
same time.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think a $1000 composite airframe will be in my future any
time soon.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Lance Van Nostrand
<patterndude@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so how do you get an "impressionist"
affected judge to be more objective? Seems that kind of person
is just the sort not interested in those pesky little things called
"rules". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BLOCKQUO! dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TE>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob
Richards</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 26, 2006
8:03 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Pattern Longitevity</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You say "the enemy is us". I agree. I feel compelled to share a
couple of my own experiences.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>When I got started (seriously) in pattern, I did so with a Cap
21. I had several of the local pattern flyers (well meaning) tell me
that I wo! uld never get the scores I deserved flying a non-pattern
plane. If I had ever felt that was true, I would have dropped out of
pattern. I flew that plane for two years, in Advanced and Masters. I
did well, I won just over half the contests in which I flew, and
managed to win the district points championship in '92.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I decided to! fly a pattern plane in '93, and ended up with a
Hansen Runaround. </DIV>
<DIV>For me, it was a big step up. However, it did not have a pipe
tunnel, and I decided to use a standard OS 1.20 with stock stubby
muffler for most of the season. I went to the '93 Nats with this
plane. I had problems in the early rounds, but for the fifth
round I flew t! he absolute best flight I have ever flown. I was
feeling great! About 30 minutes after I flew, a rain started that cut
short the flying that day. I had a large tent just behind the flight
line, so most of the judges and scribes ended up under my tent. One of
the scribes, a wel! l known FAI flyer (that probably subscribes to
this list) looked at my plane and told me that I would never get the
scores I deserve, "flying an outdated design". I told him that I was
very pleased with the flight I just had, and he said "you did not
get good scores on that flight". I did not show it, but it just
ticked me off. I know it sounds like sour ! grapes, but I decided that
if I did not get good scores that round,! I would quit pattern. I
ended up winning that round by 65 normalized points. Looking at the
tare sheets, I got great scores from all the judges that
round. Now, I don't like to use the phrase "pattern snob", but to this
day that is the opinion I have of that FAI flyer.</DIV!>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now I know that a very small percentage of the pattern flyers are
snobs, but they typically are the ones that are more vocal and more in
the limelight than others, unfortunately.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(climbing down off my soapbox).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>
<HR>
<DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>From:
"Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude@comcast.net><BR>To: "NSRCA Mailing
List" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Longitevity<BR>Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:47:32
+0000<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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