<div>I agree with both of you. </div> <div> </div> <div> If we really wanted to open a can of worms here, how about flying style, smooth and slow on rolls versus, fast and precise, both hitting the points, and both functionally correct?? Both can be graceful if done well. There shouldn't be a score difference but!!!!</div> <div> </div> <div>How about the size of maneuvers. I once saw an Intermediate pilot with a 40 size plane make 3 very small, but on track-same size-same heading-and ROUND loops that warranted a very high score but, you know the story.</div> <div> </div> <div>How about speed of the plane. THe current thinking is to fly very slowly. Of course the current schedules are much busier than previous patterns and slow does add more time to think and helps to stay in the box, but I have been told for the past 4 years, slow down you'll score better. To which I always said, judge the manuever and
quality, not the speed as its not in the rules.</div> <div> </div> <div>Of course there is the complete opposite to this. In Lubbock, I have zeroed 2 turnaround top hats because the pilot pushed the top and wasn't inverted. The pilot both times said, I've done that at other contests and no one said anything bad about it!! The rules are, regardless of other topics of interest, crystal clear on this one. </div> <div> </div> <div>The list can go on and on. Education, fun and trying to fly the best we know how is probably the most important aspect.</div> <div> </div> <div>ed<BR><BR><B><I>Lance Van Nostrand <patterndude@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Talk about confused. Neither you nor I
mentioned the Nats so I have no idea where that connection was made. I really didn't think you had the answer to my question because in essence you were asking the same thing. Sure, some planes draw nicer lines and appear more stable and paced than others, and I agree that you can get this without spending a lot of $$ or buying the plane of the season. I am agreeing that when judges begin docking a pilot points because he didn't bring the "right" plane then they are being impressionist judges. When a guy that usually finishes middle of the pack gets a 2 point downgrade and the leader does the same thing for a 1 point downgrade, that's impressionist judging. At my last contest I got a 10 and a 5 from two FAI judges on a humptybump. At least one, maybe both were impressionist judging. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I think your post about pattern longevity is about promoting the attitude that we should be encouraging to
others and to curtail frustrating new pilots by giving them false rules to follow.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hope that makes it clear as mud :)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Lance</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:47 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Longitevity</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Lance,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm not sure what you meant by your reply, I was not complaining about the judging at the Nats. I was just saying that there are pattern fliers out there with the attitude that you have to have xyz equipment to be competitive. Thats fine if they want to have that attitude, the problem lies in the fact that they really believe it and spread it to others as gospel. That, I am sure, puts some people off and keeps them from trying pattern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I always tell people that you don't need an expensive plane to be competitve. Sure, a lot of people may say that to prospective pattern flyers, but it doesn't look good when that person is flying very expensive equipment. I'm proud of the fact that I practiced what I preached, did very well while doing it, and had a lot of fun at the same time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't think a $1000 composite airframe will be in my future any time soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bob
R.</DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Lance Van Nostrand <patterndude@comcast.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>so how do you get an "impressionist" affected judge to be more objective? Seems that kind of person is just the sort not interested in those pesky little things called "rules". </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>--Lance</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=bob@toprudder.com href="mailto:bob@toprudder.com">Bob Richards</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:03 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Longitevity</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>You say "the enemy is us". I agree. I feel compelled to share a couple of my own experiences.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I got started (seriously) in pattern, I did so with a Cap 21. I had several of the local pattern flyers (well meaning) tell me that I would never get the scores I deserved flying a non-pattern plane. If I had ever felt that was true, I would have dropped out of pattern. I flew that plane for two years, in Advanced and Masters. I did well, I won just over half the contests in which I flew, and managed to win the district points championship in '92.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I decided to! fly a pattern plane in '93, and ended up with
a Hansen Runaround. </DIV> <DIV>For me, it was a big step up. However, it did not have a pipe tunnel, and I decided to use a standard OS 1.20 with stock stubby muffler for most of the season. I went to the '93 Nats with this plane. I had problems in the early rounds, but for the fifth round I flew t! he absolute best flight I have ever flown. I was feeling great! About 30 minutes after I flew, a rain started that cut short the flying that day. I had a large tent just behind the flight line, so most of the judges and scribes ended up under my tent. One of the scribes, a well known FAI flyer (that probably subscribes to this list) looked at my plane and told me that I would never get the scores I deserve, "flying an outdated design". I told him that I was very pleased with the flight I just had, and he said "you did not get good scores on that flight". I did not show it, but it just ticked me off. I know it sounds like sour ! grapes, but I decided that if I did not get
good scores that round, I would quit pattern. I ended up winning that round by 65 normalized points. Looking at the tare sheets, I got great scores from all the judges that round. Now, I don't like to use the phrase "pattern snob", but to this day that is the opinion I have of that FAI flyer.</DIV!> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I know that a very small percentage of the pattern flyers are snobs, but they typically are the ones that are more vocal and more in the limelight than others, unfortunately.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(climbing down off my soapbox).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bob R.</DIV> <DIV><BR><BR> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <div> <HR> <div></div>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion mailing
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