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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That is the post that I remembered...I thought it
was odd that the mix is for left at idle rather than right at full power....I'll
print it and put the post in memory for future reference</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks Vincente!</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Rudder
mix instead of right thrust?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have the information and I agree with Jason. I had the
opportunity to see Chips planes at the Nat and obviously he uses some right
trust. I just copied the Chip's old e-mail and pasted here so you can
see details. I found useful to mix throttle with left rudder as Chip
explains below to improve the outside corners. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>#####################################################</DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: #14254b">I run almost no right thrust in my planes
and use the <SPAN class=spelle>thottle</SPAN> to <SPAN
class=spelle>rudd</SPAN> mix at 2% left <SPAN class=spelle>rudd</SPAN>. <SPAN
class=grame>to</SPAN> throttle at idle. <SPAN class=spelle>Thottle</SPAN> is
the master <SPAN class=spelle>rudd</SPAN> the slave. This makes the planes fly
so much better when inverted at idle, they do not have that funny yaw through
the corners. I have all but stopped using right thrust and do it all with the
mix. What happens is the fin moves to the opposite side when inverted but the
engine and prop don't know it, so the plane starts to yaw really bad due to
spiraling slip stream. <BR><BR>To set this up just go out and fly the plane
straight away from yourself at full throttle and then go to idle and watch to
see which way it yaws start with 2% and start it f! rom half throttle on down.
<BR><BR>Trim it a full throttle with you rudder trim, and when you go to an
idle if the plane yaws left you have to much mix, yaws right there's not
enough. Have this screen up at take off and a buddy that can adjust it for
you. Once you have it going nice and straight at idle and full go out and do a
stall turn at the end of the box, on your way down do a half roll and exit
inverted, you will be amazed how well it will go through that corner.
<BR><BR>Do that first before any other trimming. After that go with CG(45
degree <SPAN class=spelle>upline</SPAN> 1/2 roll and it should stay on that
line with little or no down elev.) then ail differential(1 Degree More up the
Down) verticals(wing incidence .5-1 degree positive, then put the stab where
ever it needs to go get the elevators to be neutral, you will at this time mix
1-2% down elevator with throttle for your down lines), and knife edge last
(start with 5% up elevator with <SPAN class=spelle>rud! d</SPAN>.) <BR><BR>Let
me know how it goes and remember trim smarter n ot harder<G><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #14254b"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: #14254b"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #14254b"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: #14254b"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Chip Hyde</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #14254b"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
size=2><SPAN style="COLOR: #14254b"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #14254b"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #14254b"><FONT size=2><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Copy & Pasted from RCU Thread on the
Hydeaway<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=2>Ed,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=2> Don't think about
inverted / upright / right / left like that. It's all the same to the
airplane. Upright the slip stream hits the left side of the fin causing Left
yaw. For sake of argument: Right thrust will be used to counteract this.
Inverted, the SAME THING happens. Don't think right / left in reference to
YOU, think left / right in reference to the AIRPLANE. When inverted the slip
stream hits the left side (still) of the fin - unless the motor suddenly
starts turning the opposite way. Same thrust offset ("Right") required unless
the slip stream goes away in a push. Now if there's right thrust, you need
left rudder to offset the right thrust which is trying to make the airplane
yaw right in the absence of the slip stream air on the fin. If you still
want to think about it the "other" way, remember "left" rudder when inverted
will make the plane yaw to the! "right" (in reference to YOU standing there
watching the plane). Now I'm getting confused.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT size=2> If you think about
what Chip described: Trim for straight flight at full throttle, mix left at
idle. Another way would be trim straight at idle, mix right at full throttle.
That's what I've been doing. Same difference. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">John
Pavlick<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: #14254b; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=2>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">
Rudder trim is set by using a combination of things together. Thrust is a big
player in the rudder trim game... Most pilots don't realize all that goes into
getting a plane trimmed in the yaw axis, and stop once they have the plane
trimmed to fly straight at full throttle. <BR><BR>Whether you use right thrust
or not is irrelevant, you have to have throttle to rudder mixing as well, to
completely trim a plane in yaw. This is required to compensate for the
propellors affect on the model. <BR><BR>The main goal here is to end up with a
plane that flies straight at any speed, or any throttle setting. So trim you
model at full throttle flying straight away from yourself first. Once this is
done, again flying straight away from yourself, go to an idle and watch which
di! rection you plane yaws. If you are not already using throttle to rudder
mix your plane will definitely yaw one way or the other. All you need to do is
determine which way that is and then mix a couple of percent opposite rudder
to your throttle, and try again. Once you get it set so there is no yaw when
adding or reducing the throttle, your rudder is trimmed. <BR><BR>Chip
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #505050; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">quote:</SPAN></I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #505050; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><BR><BR>ORIGINAL:
Xrod <BR><BR>Hi Chip, <BR>I can't get a straight answer on this one and
decided to ask you and the other panel of experts here on RCU for a definative
answer. What is the proper way to set rudder trim? How do you go about it, and
what manoevers do you use to assess correct trim? <BR>Thanks, <BR>Steve
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT
size=2>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">The
most common mixes are rudd to ail and rudder to elev for knife flight, and
your <A
title="Browse RCU Marketplace for Carden and other giant scale planes being sold by fellow RCU members"
href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=251"
target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: black">carden</SPAN></A> edge needs the
second one. Start with 5% and go from there. <BR><BR>As for some other mixes
the rudder to throttle is one I have used for 10 years now and will continue
to use until someone comes up with a light weight counter rotating prop. In
order for a plane to be true upright and inverted it is the only way I can
think of to even come close. THRUST IS NOT THE ANSWER. lol Finally I sometimes
mix 1 or 2 percent down elevator at idle in order to get the downlines
perfect. The reason for this is once you get your plane to go straight up !
you don't want to mess with anything that can affect that on the plane so I
just mix out whatever is needed on the down lines.
<BR><BR>Chip<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Start
with none and trim for straight and level flight with the plane going away
from you. Make sure you only have 1-2 degrees of right thrust at the most.
once it is trimed at full throttle level flight, land and see how far your
Rudder is off to the right< and then add the mix until your rudder is
netral at Idle and off by however much needed at the full throttle setting.
<BR><BR>Have a nice day <BR><BR>Chip</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT
size=2> </FONT></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "JShulman"
<jshulman@cfl.rr.com> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1515" name=GENERATOR>
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<DIV><SPAN class=870391817-19022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Hi
George,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=870391817-19022006><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=870391817-19022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>It's not
my technique, it's Chips. I tried it and didn't like it, but Chip's been
using it for many years. Basically, there is no right thrust in the motor,
and he uses a Throttle-Rudder mix. At idle, the rudder is neutral, and at
full it has about 3/16ths (3-5%) right rudder mixed in. It's just a straight
mix. If you want to get a more fine tuned mix, use a point mix and set the
trim at the different points.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT
size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>George Miller<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 19, 2006 11:08
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
Rudder mix instead of right thrust?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Somewhere I've seen a description of Jason's
technique to set up rudder mix instead of right engine thrust, but I can't
find it. Could someone please re-post this or re-iterate it. I
can't believe I didn't save the message!-DOH!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I can set up the mix in the
transmitter...what I really want to know is what starting percentages are
reasonable, and how to fine tune the mix.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>George</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
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