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<DIV>Hi Dave,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think I made mind mind. I will wait until battery manufactures give us a guarantee that make sense for the cost we are paying. We get warranty in engines, radios and other components. Why not the batteries? Probably you can convince Horizont. They will be ahead of the pack.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Have a nice weekend,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vicente</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "David Lockhart" <DaveL322@comcast.net> <BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vicente,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think electric may be closer for you than you think!!!! For F3A, the lightest lipos than can provide the power are being used (TP5300s), and the relatively high discharge rate is not the best for longevity - but it is not uncommon to see 75 - 100 flights with good charging/discharging practices. My Abbra is light at 10 lbs 4 oz, and with some effort I could get it 2 oz lighter. There is plenty of weight available to increase the size of the lipos to reduce load on them and still stay under 11 lbs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dave</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=vicenterc@comcast.net href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> ; <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=DaveL322@comcast.net href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 17, 2006 4:54 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric vs. Glow</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Hi Dave,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yes, it is evident that electric systems maintenance cost is less than internal combustion engines. Let's put a number to maintenance. I know for 2C. I usually fly 300 flights per year. I will say that I spend the following in a year. Of course, this is a rough approximation (my starter is 15 years old and still running well):</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Glow drivers: replace one battery per year + glow clips = ~$40/yr</DIV>
<DIV>Engine parts (Pump+rings or other parts) = ~$100/yr</DIV>
<DIV>Additional labor (could be a bigger number for some) for me in the hobby around = $160/yr </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Total is: about $ $300/yr. This add around $1 per flight. The electric would have some maintenance less say 20% of the glow maintenance cost. Therefore, the new number including maintenance cost is for glow $2.64/flight. For electric would be around $7.60/flight. Including operational and maintenance costs the electric is about 2.87 more expensive than glow assuming that the life of the battery is 100 cycles. Clearly the life of the battery or the initial cost is driven the electric cost. I would say that when the batteries gives around 150-200 cycles it would be the right time in my case to switch. Base on the little information floating around the life of the batteries could be lower than 100 cycles. Of course if the battery manufacturers are willing to give warranty that is close to the one we get for car batteries this economic analysis will change. This is pure eco! nomic analysis, it is clear to me that for high level pilots electric is definitive strong advantage and could be one or two spot difference in final contest results. For sponsored pilots there is no way to put dollar value since they are getting free equipment.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>VB</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: DaveL322@comcast.net <BR>
<DIV>And the cost of support equipment - glow drivers, electric starters. Support equipment for the electrics is less prone to wear/tear and need to be repaired/replaced.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And then the cost of maintaining the powerplants themselves - Properly setup and maintained electrics need little or no maintenance. And then there is the time savings (different people will put a different value on their time) of not having to do the additional maintenance for the glow.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Dave</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Rick Kent" <knowhow3@bellsouth.net> <BR>
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<DIV>That may be true if you're considering fuel costs only. I would think it's fair to factor in the savings realized by not having to frequently repair/replace your airframe and radio equipment from vibration induced wear and damage as well.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rick </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=IncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I></DIV>
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<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>From:</B></I> <A href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Date:</B></I> 02/17/06 15:22:08</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>To:</B></I> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>; <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing List'</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><I><B>Subject:</B></I> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fuel Weight</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I spend around $15 per gallon (20% nitro, 2C). That means that the cost per oz is about $0.12/oz. I spend about 14 oz to fly the Master schedule with normal winds. In Muncie we should use around 16 oz (2C engines). This means that the glow fuel cost is about $1.64/flight. For electric, the question is how many cycles is the average life of the batteries? Let's make it easier and assume that the average life is 100 cycles. This means that the cost per fly would be $7.40/flight. Clearly, electric is 4.5 times more expensive assuming that 100 cycles is correct compared with 2C engines. My personal conclusion is: I will wait until the battery manufactures give us at least equal guaranty that we get when we buy batteries for cars.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Vince </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="rem_PADDING-LEFT: 5px; rem_MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; rem_BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Michael Laggis" <fishgod@pobox.mtaonline.net> <BR>
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=893291919-17022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It may be cheaper in the end, but laying out the $$$ to get started is the hard thing.(4 sets of batteries, chargers, power supplies/generator). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=893291919-17022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=893291919-17022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Michael Laggis</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=893291919-17022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Earl Haury<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 17, 2006 9:56 AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fuel Weight<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Electricity is a whole lot cheaper than glow fuel - it's just the darn tanks that are expensive (and heavy)!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=natpenton@centurytel.net href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 17, 2006 12:12 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Fuel Weight</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>24oz is .1875 gallons. Nitro fuel weighs about 7.5# / gal. The fuel weight would be 22.5oz, but, a pound and a half is close enough for government work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I didn't look up the weight of electrons, but one of my battery packs weighs 2.5lb and cost $740 and I still think electric is cheaper ------- and, it doesen't take creative accounting. Nat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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