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<DIV>I agree with Bob, Dean, Ron, etc.... But really, if he wants a true flying
plane, why did he pick a "Stick" in the first place ??? I've yet to see one at
the TOC or Nats in FAI.......</DIV>
<DIV>Sounds like how to build a better pattern plane 101.</DIV>
<DIV>Ed M.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=d.pappas@kodeos.com href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">Dean Pappas</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 30, 2006 2:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trimming
question</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=781054719-30012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hey
Bob,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=781054719-30012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
like your story ... NYAHHH!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=781054719-30012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><A
href="mailto:d.pappas@kodeos.com">d.pappas@kodeos.com</A></FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Bob
Richards<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 30, 2006 2:41 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trimming
question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>I don't like to get involved with knife-edge trim discussions since I
don't feel that I am an expert on the subject. However, I developed a theory
about it years ago that seemed to fit most problems I have seen.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The vertical placement of the wing and stab on the fuselage has a lot
to do with it. With a top-wing and a bottom stab (such as the Ultrasticks)
the tendency would be to pitch nose-up during knife edge. OTOH, a Cap 21 has
a bottom wing and a top mounted stab, and I know only too well that this
pitches severely to the belly in knife edge - my old Cap21 took 35% mix to
fly straight.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>My theory is that, when the fuselage is presented to the relative wind
at a given angle of attack, there is pressure built up on the side of the
fuselage (has to be, to fly knife edge). This pressure will naturally wrap
around the fuselage, so there will be a separation line along the fuselage
where the air separates, just l! ike at the leading edge of a wing -- some
goes over, some goes under. The stab should be placed near this natural
separation line. If it is far below this line, the plane will pitch to the
canopy, if far above, it will pitch to the belly. This is due to the stab
trapping some of the pressure.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't think the wing incidence change can correct anything other than
a very minor pitch coupling problem. For really bad situations, a change in
the stab location is probably what is needed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Anyway, that is my story and I am sticking to it. :-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>John Ferrell <johnferrell@earthlink.net></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">My
Guess:<BR>The sum of the drag vectors is well above the vertical CG. You
MIGHT be able <BR>to help the condition with really big wheels generating
some dr! ag down low. <BR>Its anybody's guess what the turbulance might
trigger.<BR><BR>The wing is not lifting in knife edge, but it is still
draggin'.<BR><BR>John Ferrell<BR>http://DixieNC.US<BR><BR>----- Original
Message ----- <BR>From: "John Pavlick" <JPAVLICK@IDSENG.COM><BR>To: "NSRCA
Discussion" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>Sent: Friday, January
27, 2006 11:31 PM<BR>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trimming
question<BR><BR><BR>> Ok here's a good one. The owner of the L.H.S.
asked me what I thought <BR>> about<BR>> this and I couldn't come up
with a good answer. He has a Hangar 9 Ugly<BR>> Stik - the real big
one. I can't remember exactly what it's called. Guess <BR>> it<BR>>
has a gas motor in it. It's big. He says he has it trimmed so it will
fly<BR>> inverted with just a very slight bit of down elevator (almost
none). Ok, <BR>> so<BR>> it's not nose heavy, maybe even a little
tail heavy. Now, when he flies it<BR>> knife edge (either side) it
pulls s! everely to the canopy. I mean like it<BR>> will fly a complete
circle. It needs almost 3/4 down elevator to fly<BR>> straight. It's
beyond a mix - fix. He also says that it has a bit of roll<BR>> couple
when flying level (not knife edge) but it doesn't pitch severely
up<BR>> or down under these conditions. Any thoughts? I guess you can
rule out <BR>> C.G.<BR>> because if anything it should pull to the
belly considering how it's <BR>> trimmed<BR>> to fly level upright
and inverted. I haven't flown it so I can't add too<BR>> much more. He
builds OK so I don't think there's anything way out of<BR>> alignment,
but again I haven't seen it yet so maybe there is. What should <BR>>
I<BR>> look for if I get my hands on it to try and help
him?<BR>><BR>> John Pavlick<BR>>
http://www.idseng.com<BR>><BR>> --<BR>> No virus found in this
outgoing message.<BR>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>> Version:
7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.23! /243 - Release Date:
1/27/06<BR>><BR>>
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