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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So your 3200 packs are 150 g. or so lighter than
5K+ packs. I would expect pretty short life from these as even a conservative
power usage for a flight will be equal to total pack capacity. General consensus
is that 70 - 80% max discharge will result in longer pack life than higher,
certainly voltage under load during a flight will be higher toward the end of
flight. Add that to your observation that they aren't lasting @ 20C and
your findings on life seem normal. The power density (capacity / mass) is
about 3/4 that of the 5K packs (typically higher C ratings come with a weight
penalty), scraping the weight from the airplane somewhere and using larger
packs is probably a good move.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=richard.s@allied-callaway.com
href="mailto:richard.s@allied-callaway.com">Richard Strickland</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=oorland55@netzero.net
href="mailto:oorland55@netzero.net">oorland55@netzero.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 23, 2006 8:27
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>About 2 lbs., 4 oz. with the DPMs--as I
recall.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>RS</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ehaury@houston.rr.com href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">Earl
Haury</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:21
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tell Orland "hello" from me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How much do your 3200 packs weigh?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=richard.s@allied-callaway.com
href="mailto:richard.s@allied-callaway.com">Richard Strickland</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21,
2006 12:23 PM</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] E Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After Orland and I went through a steep
learning curve at the beginning last year, the whole set-up became VERY
reliable. Hacker geared motors, Hacker controllers, 22/12 props and
Kokam 3200 20c batteries. As it turned out, the airplanes were
pulling around 65 amps at full throttle and the batteries were not happy
for longevity much over 10c. I sort of re-grouped when all
three sets of batteries called it a day after about 25 cycles ea.
set--decided that I'd wait until the technology caught up. The old
Jag('68 2+2)(2m will just fit) we've been madly restoring is
about under control and I'm about to get back in the fray--so
I'll be casting around for a battery set-up. Castle Creations(local)
sent me a controller to try and I may whip something up for that.
Unfortunately, both the airplanes I've got are a little heavy that
anything over the 3200s will put 'em over the limit. I may not sweat
that for now as I'm probably not going to hit any big-time contests this
year. As I've said before--everything seems pretty reliable at this
point--except battery life. Weight certainly affects amp draw which
affects battery life--so if we have to live with existing technology--then
that is the first place to look. I could be wrong, but I have the
feeling some folks have about 5 sets(or more) and one or two are in
transit to and from the manufacturers supporting them during the heavy
contest season. If you've got deep pockets(or are sponsored)--that's
cool--for the rest of us; either the batteries have got to come along, or
we build lighter, change our flying approach--or all of the above to
extend battery life. I am NOT bashing Kokam--they are great folks
and they were learning right along with us. I'll be talking to them
first. I may chat with Tanic since they are local. We'll
see.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ehaury@houston.rr.com href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">Earl
Haury</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List,
NSRCA</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January
21, 2006 11:02 AM</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B>
[NSRCA-discussion] E Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The E info on the list has been scant.
Probably some are reluctant to hype / criticize products because of
their involvement with suppliers. Some of us are just blindly exploring
options, gathering data / information, and forming opinions without
experience to back up our conclusions. </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Certainly information offered by those with experience is very
welcome and appreciated. Those who are qualified experts in the various
fields that can correct / clarify information gained through the school
of hard knocks are not only welcome, but I suspect somewhat obligated to
protect the rest of us. As this entire topic expands there will be
conflicting opinions which in themselves provide info - that's what this
list is for and no one should take offense that some prefer other
views.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After teasing the E guys at the Nats I
recognized that the E powered airplanes flew better (I'll admit to being
obstinate - but not totally dumb). There were also differences that
seemed related more to E equipment choices than differences in pilot
skills. The info published by Jason, Frack, Adam, Chad, and others (in
RCU forums) provided an insight to the various equipment choices (and
passionate defense of same in some cases). Interestingly, a lot of the
discussions revolve around equipment type rather than the effect on
flight characteristics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So - I set about trying to determine if E
flies better and why. So far the answer is yes and I'm not sure. While
differences in dynamics can be identified, it's hard to quantify the
effects. For example, the lighter / slower rotating E prop generates a
lower gyroscopic precession force during looping maneuvers than glow -
this also suggests the lower rotating mass of a geared motor might be
better. The lighter motor (compared to glow engine) up front
can result in a lower pitch moment of inertia if the tail
is light enough to allow the battery mass to be close to the CG.
Airplane smoothness in rough air is markedly better with E. (I did most
of my comparisons with twin Partners - one glow and one E - at about the
same flight weight.) This may be an effect of the large diameter
prop or lack of vibration effect on the servos. As others have noted,
thrust application is very good with E as the slower prop is efficient
and the motor is instantly responsive and very linear. E can be flown
slower than or as fast as glow, the airplane is more stable with E
when slow - again probably the large prop effect. Overall, it's
easier to fly well with E but E won't fix sloppy flying.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As with most things in model aviation -
there are learning curves. Some suppliers are better than others, some
equipment is better than others, some choices will be revisited after
experience is gained. The hardest thing to get used to is the
metrification of cost - kilo dollars. Not that E is that much more
expensive than glow - just that very little from glow is useable with E.
That means one must acquire motors, controllers, batteries, chargers,
power supplies, meters, connectors, wire, props, etc. pretty much
from scratch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there's interest in this becoming a
thread I'll discuss the reasons for some of my choices of equipment and
the data I've generated / will generate with the full understanding that
I might be operating under false assumptions and some of this stuff will
change - I'm still learning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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