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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Another thing is I don't live in a perfect
world--that is--I have limited practice time and limited resources which means
I've got to charge at the field. Unfortunately that means the batteries
have to go on charge almost immediately after flying and is not good for a
pretty warm pack--but it wouldn't have been so warm had it been more
capacity. What's a brother to do? The nice thing about Kokam's
Discharge Protection Modules is they give a little 'sag' warning to land before
drawing them down too far. They've also got a 'fast' balancing
charger that holds promise. Looks like everyone is still learning and is
compounded with development. It's all good. Expensive, however, on
the bleedong edge.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ehaury@houston.rr.com href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">Earl
Haury</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:21
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tell Orland "hello" from me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How much do your 3200 packs weigh? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=richard.s@allied-callaway.com
href="mailto:richard.s@allied-callaway.com">Richard Strickland</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21,
2006 12:23 PM</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] E Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After Orland and I went through a steep
learning curve at the beginning last year, the whole set-up became VERY
reliable. Hacker geared motors, Hacker controllers, 22/12 props and
Kokam 3200 20c batteries. As it turned out, the airplanes were pulling
around 65 amps at full throttle and the batteries were not happy for
longevity much over 10c. I sort of re-grouped when all three sets
of batteries called it a day after about 25 cycles ea. set--decided
that I'd wait until the technology caught up. The old Jag('68 2+2)(2m
will just fit) we've been madly restoring is about under
control and I'm about to get back in the fray--so I'll be casting
around for a battery set-up. Castle Creations(local) sent me a
controller to try and I may whip something up for that. Unfortunately,
both the airplanes I've got are a little heavy that anything over the 3200s
will put 'em over the limit. I may not sweat that for now as I'm
probably not going to hit any big-time contests this year. As I've
said before--everything seems pretty reliable at this point--except battery
life. Weight certainly affects amp draw which affects battery life--so
if we have to live with existing technology--then that is the first place to
look. I could be wrong, but I have the feeling some folks have about 5
sets(or more) and one or two are in transit to and from the
manufacturers supporting them during the heavy contest season. If
you've got deep pockets(or are sponsored)--that's cool--for the rest of us;
either the batteries have got to come along, or we build lighter, change our
flying approach--or all of the above to extend battery life. I am NOT
bashing Kokam--they are great folks and they were learning right along with
us. I'll be talking to them first. I may chat with Tanic since
they are local. We'll see.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ehaury@houston.rr.com href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">Earl
Haury</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List, NSRCA</A>
</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21,
2006 11:02 AM</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion]
E Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The E info on the list has been scant.
Probably some are reluctant to hype / criticize products because of their
involvement with suppliers. Some of us are just blindly exploring options,
gathering data / information, and forming opinions without experience to
back up our conclusions. </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>Certainly
information offered by those with experience is very welcome and
appreciated. Those who are qualified experts in the various fields that
can correct / clarify information gained through the school of hard knocks
are not only welcome, but I suspect somewhat obligated to protect the rest
of us. As this entire topic expands there will be conflicting opinions
which in themselves provide info - that's what this list is for and no one
should take offense that some prefer other views.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After teasing the E guys at the Nats I
recognized that the E powered airplanes flew better (I'll admit to being
obstinate - but not totally dumb). There were also differences that seemed
related more to E equipment choices than differences in pilot skills. The
info published by Jason, Frack, Adam, Chad, and others (in RCU forums)
provided an insight to the various equipment choices (and passionate
defense of same in some cases). Interestingly, a lot of the discussions
revolve around equipment type rather than the effect on flight
characteristics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So - I set about trying to determine if E
flies better and why. So far the answer is yes and I'm not sure. While
differences in dynamics can be identified, it's hard to quantify the
effects. For example, the lighter / slower rotating E prop generates a
lower gyroscopic precession force during looping maneuvers than glow -
this also suggests the lower rotating mass of a geared motor might be
better. The lighter motor (compared to glow engine) up front
can result in a lower pitch moment of inertia if the tail
is light enough to allow the battery mass to be close to the CG. Airplane
smoothness in rough air is markedly better with E. (I did most of my
comparisons with twin Partners - one glow and one E - at about the same
flight weight.) This may be an effect of the large diameter prop or
lack of vibration effect on the servos. As others have noted, thrust
application is very good with E as the slower prop is efficient and the
motor is instantly responsive and very linear. E can be flown slower than
or as fast as glow, the airplane is more stable with E when
slow - again probably the large prop effect. Overall, it's easier to
fly well with E but E won't fix sloppy flying.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As with most things in model aviation - there
are learning curves. Some suppliers are better than others, some equipment
is better than others, some choices will be revisited after experience is
gained. The hardest thing to get used to is the metrification of cost -
kilo dollars. Not that E is that much more expensive than glow - just that
very little from glow is useable with E. That means one must acquire
motors, controllers, batteries, chargers, power supplies, meters,
connectors, wire, props, etc. pretty much from scratch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there's interest in this becoming a thread
I'll discuss the reasons for some of my choices of equipment and the data
I've generated / will generate with the full understanding that I might be
operating under false assumptions and some of this stuff will change - I'm
still learning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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