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<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi
Rich,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I have
only one pack, for my personal testing program, and while it is a drag to wait
about 1 hour between flights, I am socializing with my
clubmates.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I have
been flying the FMA stuff since mid-Summer. I'm writing about it for
FM, right now. I almost can't say enough good things about the
syatem. The Balance-Pro charger is dandy, and the discharge protection
module is a fabulous idea. The DPM worked great, until I un-installed
it! After that, I inadvertently ran the pack into the ESC low-voltage
cutoff (30V for 10 cells) but that means that if the cells aren't perfectly
matched, that at least one of them will be under 3.0V! I damaged a cell
that way. The only downside to the DPM is the 1-1/2 oz of weight it adds to a
10S plane. All my Sport stuff will use a DPM. That is for sure! The discharge
module looks like it could be substantially lightened with a connector change.
Hey Greg ... you listening?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>P.S.
The Balance -Pro charger actually has allowed me to safely fly eleven more
(shortened) flights since I discovered the 40% loss of capacity in one cell.
Obviously this is now in the category of abuse testing (I am being
exceedingly careful) but hopefully the guys at FMA will benefit. I know that I
am.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>later,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Dean</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=984330816-23012006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dean Pappas</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Sr. Design Engineer</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Kodeos Communications</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">111 Corporate Blvd.</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">South Plainfield, N.J. 07080</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-7817 phone</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">(908) 222-2392 fax</FONT> <BR><FONT
face="Times New Roman">d.pappas@kodeos.com</FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard
Strickland<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 23, 2006 10:52 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Another thing is I don't live in a perfect
world--that is--I have limited practice time and limited resources which means
I've got to charge at the field. Unfortunately that means the batteries
have to go on charge almost immediately after flying and is not good for a
pretty warm pack--but it wouldn't have been so warm had it been more
capacity. What's a brother to do? The nice thing about Kokam's
Discharge Protection Modules is they give a little 'sag' warning to land
before drawing them down too far. They've also got a 'fast'
balancing charger that holds promise. Looks like everyone is still
learning and is compounded with development. It's all good.
Expensive, however, on the bleedong edge.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ehaury@houston.rr.com href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">Earl
Haury</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21, 2006 1:21
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] E
Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tell Orland "hello" from me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>How much do your 3200 packs weigh?
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=richard.s@allied-callaway.com
href="mailto:richard.s@allied-callaway.com">Richard Strickland</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 21,
2006 12:23 PM</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] E Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After Orland and I went through a steep
learning curve at the beginning last year, the whole set-up became VERY
reliable. Hacker geared motors, Hacker controllers, 22/12 props and
Kokam 3200 20c batteries. As it turned out, the airplanes were
pulling around 65 amps at full throttle and the batteries were not happy
for longevity much over 10c. I sort of re-grouped when all
three sets of batteries called it a day after about 25 cycles ea.
set--decided that I'd wait until the technology caught up. The old
Jag('68 2+2)(2m will just fit) we've been madly restoring is
about under control and I'm about to get back in the fray--so
I'll be casting around for a battery set-up. Castle Creations(local)
sent me a controller to try and I may whip something up for that.
Unfortunately, both the airplanes I've got are a little heavy that
anything over the 3200s will put 'em over the limit. I may not sweat
that for now as I'm probably not going to hit any big-time contests this
year. As I've said before--everything seems pretty reliable at this
point--except battery life. Weight certainly affects amp draw which
affects battery life--so if we have to live with existing technology--then
that is the first place to look. I could be wrong, but I have the
feeling some folks have about 5 sets(or more) and one or two are in
transit to and from the manufacturers supporting them during the heavy
contest season. If you've got deep pockets(or are sponsored)--that's
cool--for the rest of us; either the batteries have got to come along, or
we build lighter, change our flying approach--or all of the above to
extend battery life. I am NOT bashing Kokam--they are great folks
and they were learning right along with us. I'll be talking to them
first. I may chat with Tanic since they are local. We'll
see.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Richard</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ehaury@houston.rr.com href="mailto:ehaury@houston.rr.com">Earl
Haury</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">Discussion List,
NSRCA</A> </DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January
21, 2006 11:02 AM</DIV>
<DIV DEFANGED_STYLE="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B>
[NSRCA-discussion] E Stuff</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The E info on the list has been scant.
Probably some are reluctant to hype / criticize products because of
their involvement with suppliers. Some of us are just blindly exploring
options, gathering data / information, and forming opinions without
experience to back up our conclusions. </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Certainly information offered by those with experience is very
welcome and appreciated. Those who are qualified experts in the various
fields that can correct / clarify information gained through the school
of hard knocks are not only welcome, but I suspect somewhat obligated to
protect the rest of us. As this entire topic expands there will be
conflicting opinions which in themselves provide info - that's what this
list is for and no one should take offense that some prefer other
views.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>After teasing the E guys at the Nats I
recognized that the E powered airplanes flew better (I'll admit to being
obstinate - but not totally dumb). There were also differences that
seemed related more to E equipment choices than differences in pilot
skills. The info published by Jason, Frack, Adam, Chad, and others (in
RCU forums) provided an insight to the various equipment choices (and
passionate defense of same in some cases). Interestingly, a lot of the
discussions revolve around equipment type rather than the effect on
flight characteristics.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So - I set about trying to determine if E
flies better and why. So far the answer is yes and I'm not sure. While
differences in dynamics can be identified, it's hard to quantify the
effects. For example, the lighter / slower rotating E prop generates a
lower gyroscopic precession force during looping maneuvers than glow -
this also suggests the lower rotating mass of a geared motor might be
better. The lighter motor (compared to glow engine) up front
can result in a lower pitch moment of inertia if the tail
is light enough to allow the battery mass to be close to the CG.
Airplane smoothness in rough air is markedly better with E. (I did most
of my comparisons with twin Partners - one glow and one E - at about the
same flight weight.) This may be an effect of the large diameter
prop or lack of vibration effect on the servos. As others have noted,
thrust application is very good with E as the slower prop is efficient
and the motor is instantly responsive and very linear. E can be flown
slower than or as fast as glow, the airplane is more stable with E
when slow - again probably the large prop effect. Overall, it's
easier to fly well with E but E won't fix sloppy flying.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As with most things in model aviation -
there are learning curves. Some suppliers are better than others, some
equipment is better than others, some choices will be revisited after
experience is gained. The hardest thing to get used to is the
metrification of cost - kilo dollars. Not that E is that much more
expensive than glow - just that very little from glow is useable with E.
That means one must acquire motors, controllers, batteries, chargers,
power supplies, meters, connectors, wire, props, etc. pretty much
from scratch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If there's interest in this becoming a
thread I'll discuss the reasons for some of my choices of equipment and
the data I've generated / will generate with the full understanding that
I might be operating under false assumptions and some of this stuff will
change - I'm still learning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<P>
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